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Committee

COVID-19 Committee 19 May 2020

19 May 2020 · S5 · COVID-19 Committee
Item of business
Coronavirus (Scotland) (No 2) Bill: Stage 2
Good morning, everyone. Good luck today—I know that you have a lot to get through. I have the convener’s words that we should keep things brief ringing in my ears as I start this first group, which could be quite meaty. Before I get into it, on behalf of everyone taking part I thank the Parliament’s bill team for getting through 56 amendments, which was quite a hefty task. I hope that they do not have such a hefty task when we move to stage 3 tomorrow. Amendment 15 relates to the provisions in the bill that give students the right to give seven days’ notice to end their tenancy with a student housing provider. Amendment 15 is aimed not at damaging those provisions but at clearing them up. I ask members to look at subparagraph 3(2)(b)(i) of schedule 1. My reading of the subparagraph draws the same conclusion as has been drawn by Universities Scotland and the Scottish Property Federation, and is that it applies to anyone on an existing tenancy. However, I cannot imagine that there will be many students still around or many who have signed a lease for the next academic year, knowing the risks that are associated with that. Kevin Stewart wrote to me about the issue, for which I am grateful. He said: “The provision purposely makes the distinction between leases ‘entered into’ before the Bill comes into force and those entered into after that date ... the main category we are seeking to address is leases which have already started, where the tenant has been in occupation, and which are about to come to an end. But we were also aware that the proposal would affect other leases. We have chosen to treat all leases entered into before the pandemic (including those yet to start) in the same way because they have been impacted by an unforeseen event which we consider to be a justification for giving students the right to terminate on seven days’ notice. On the other hand, students agreeing tenancies after the Bill comes into force will be aware of the risks and impact of the pandemic. We therefore don’t intend to make any amendments to the way the provisions are currently drafted.” There is a gap between those who are currently students and who signed leases before the pandemic, and students who sign leases after the bill comes into force. My amendment 15 seeks to ensure that anyone who entered into a lease during the pandemic for the next academic year would not be covered by the provisions, which I think is the intent. It is simply a tidying-up amendment. In a way, amendment 47 ties in with amendment 15, because it relates to the part of the Council Tax (Exempt Dwellings) (Scotland) Order 1997 that deals with student accommodation. Many large providers of purpose-built student accommodation have done the right thing and offered to release students from their leases for the summer term, but that could lead to an unintended consequence of those providers being charged vacant property council tax rates. Amendment 47 seeks to sort that out. Amendment 46 also relates to council tax. It would exempt all former rented properties from council tax. I have had representations from landlords whose tenants have left—perhaps because they have lost work or were living away from home and have gone back home—with the landlords left with empty furnished properties. The landlords will fill the properties again if they are still in business, but they need help now. Amendment 46 would simply remove the burden on them of paying council tax, but only for now. My final amendment in the group, which is probably the most controversial, is amendment 42. It seems to have set off alarm bells with ministers, but they should not be quite so worried. It relates to holiday lets. Members will be aware of the difficulties that the tourism industry is facing. Amendment 42 is intended to help those who run genuine self-catering businesses to fill their properties, while allowing them the flexibility of being able to return to business at a later date. The properties could be used to house key workers such as lorry drivers for a while. The Scottish Government fears that we could end up with mass evictions, but I really do not see those fears being realised. A recent survey by the Association of Scotland’s Self-Caterers of its members found that 61 per cent of respondents felt pessimistic about their businesses’ sustainability and 37 per cent felt pessimistic in the longer term. The association is supportive of amendment 42. I realise that the amendment is far reaching—it deals heavily with tenancy law and would allow people running holiday lets to convert them into normal tenancies on a short-term basis. We would not ordinarily do that, but we are in an emergency. I commend amendment 42 to members. I turn to the amendments in the group that Andy Wightman and Pauline McNeill lodged, on which members have had quite a bit of correspondence. Mr Wightman’s amendment 16 and Ms McNeill’s amendment 22 deal with funds for tenants. In my view, such an approach is not required; the issue should be dealt with through the welfare system. Amendment 22 is slightly better than amendment 16, but I suggest to Ms McNeill that a better solution to the issue that she is trying to address might be to change the criteria for seeking assistance from the Scottish welfare fund so that they include rent arrears. Perhaps the most controversial of Mr Wightman’s amendments is amendment 17, which provides for a rent freeze. Many landlords have reduced rents to help tenants during the crisis; for example, I know landlords in Edinburgh who have reduced rents by 30 per cent for a minimum of three months. Of course, that is what should happen: tenants should tell landlords when they are facing difficulties and landlords should respond flexibly. The committee has received a number of pieces of correspondence on amendment 17—members might or might not have had a chance to read them. The Glasgow and West of Scotland Forum of Housing Associations said: “Amendment 17 seeks a two-year rent freeze from the date on which the No 2 Act comes into force. Currently it is impossible to estimate the financial losses which housing associations will incur as a result of lost rent and void costs during Covid. No association will want to impose large increases in the coming years”. On amendment 18, the forum said: “Amendment 18 seeks to have liability for rent arrears incurred during the Covid period ‘extinguished’”— that is the word that the amendment uses. The GWSF went on to say: “In GWSF’s view this measure would be catastrophic, as it would effectively send a signal to 600,000 social housing tenants that rent was no longer payable during the Covid crisis. This would lead to many thousands of tenants who could still afford to pay their rent not doing so”. We had similar comments from the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations. I urge members to reject amendment 18 and all Mr Wightman’s amendments in the group, and to reject Ms McNeill’s amendments. I move amendment 15.

In the same item of business

The Convener (Murdo Fraser) Con
Good morning, and welcome to the fifth meeting of the COVID-19 Committee. The only item on our agenda today is stage 2 consideration of the Coronavirus (Scot...
Annabelle Ewing (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) SNP
I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests. Therein, members will note that I am a member of the Law Society of Scotland and hold a cu...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I am a member of Unite the union.
The Convener Con
We come to the stage 2 proceedings. Members will have in front of them the marshalled list, which shows the order in which amendments will be considered. Se...
The Convener Con
The first group of amendments is on housing and tenancies. Amendment 15, in the name of Graham Simpson, is grouped with amendments 16, 22, 17 to 20, 42, 46 a...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Good morning, everyone. Good luck today—I know that you have a lot to get through. I have the convener’s words that we should keep things brief ringing in my...
The Convener Con
I remind members that if they want to contribute to the discussion on the amendments, they must type “R” in the message box, please.
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
As members are aware, the first coronavirus bill—the Coronavirus (Scotland) Bill—provided welcome protection for tenants by ensuring that notice periods for ...
The Convener Con
Pauline McNeill will speak to amendment 22 and other amendments in the group.
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
As Andy Wightman said, many tenants will face severe economic hardship due to Covid-19. Government should seriously consider the importance of trying to avoi...
The Convener Con
As no other members wish to speak at this point, we will hear from the minister.
The Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning (Kevin Stewart) SNP
There are several amendments in the group, and I will address each in turn. I will start with amendment 15, in the name of Graham Simpson. I thank Mr Simpso...
The Convener Con
Thank you, minister. As you have said, that was a comprehensive assessment of the group.
Graham Simpson Con
I thank members who have taken part in the discussion on the group, and I thank the minister for what was, as has been said, a comprehensive look at all the ...
The Convener Con
Amendment 16 is in the name of Andy Wightman. Because the technology that we are using does not allow interventions, it is reasonable to allow members who ha...
Andy Wightman Green
Thank you, convener. I will move amendment 16. The minister said that no landlord should evict a tenant because of coronavirus, but the reality is that tena...
The Convener Con
The question is, that amendment 16 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener Con
There will be a division. For Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Agai...
The Convener Con
The result of the division is: For 3, Against 6, Abstentions 0. Amendment 16 disagreed to.
The Convener Con
Amendment 22, in the name of Pauline McNeill, has already been debated with amendment 15. I invite Pauline McNeill to respond briefly to the debate, if she w...
Pauline McNeill Lab
I will move amendment 22. I agree with Andy Wightman that tenants will potentially be evicted from their homes if we do not take a more radical approach to ...
The Convener Con
The question is, that amendment 22 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener Con
There will be a division. For Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Agai...
The Convener Con
The result of the division is: For 3, Against 6, Abstentions 0. Amendment 22 disagreed to. Amendment 17 moved—Andy Wightman.
The Convener Con
The question is, that amendment 17 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener Con
There will be a division. For Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Against Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine ...
The Convener Con
The result of the division is: For 2, Against 7, Abstentions 0. Amendment 17 disagreed to. Amendment 18 moved—Andy Wightman.
The Convener Con
The question is, that amendment 18 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener Con
There will be a division. For Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Against Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine ...
The Convener Con
The result of the division is: For 2, Against 7, Abstentions 0. Amendment 18 disagreed to. Amendment 19 moved—Andy Wightman.