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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 25 February 2020 [Draft]

25 Feb 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Period Products (Free Provision) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

I associate myself with the words of Aileen Campbell. I agree with every word—well, most of what she said; not quite everything.

I congratulate Monica Lennon on her work on the bill, on her tireless tweeting and on managing to persuade all parties to go against the committee’s recommendation that the bill should go no further. I have known Monica for what feels like a long time—probably for both of us. When we were both councillors in South Lanarkshire, she was as quiet as a mouse, but not now

I have treated the bill as I treat any bill: with an open mind and a great deal of diligence about what is in front of us. What looked to be fairly straightforward has proved to be anything but. I have swayed between thinking that the bill had some legs, to thinking that it should go no further and was not required. I remain to be convinced about it, but my party leader, Jackson Carlaw, who was mentioned previously, was ambushed on Facebook, so here we are. I have been informed of the error of my ways. If only I had briefed him in advance.

It would be easy to say that because of what the Parliament is about to do, we might as well rip up the committee’s report; that we might as well not have bothered to take any evidence or to do any work. However, the Parliament is entitled to disagree with a committee’s conclusions and there has been great value to our work on this subject. I have certainly found the whole thing educational.

I represented the Local Government and Communities Committee at a meeting with the Scottish Youth Parliament in Dunfermline. I thank all those who attended that meeting for their keen interest in the bill. Three of us also met groups in Perth. That led to one of our recommendations, which I will come to.

The bill would become

“An Act of the Scottish Parliament to secure the provision throughout Scotland of free period products.”

Section 1 of the bill says:

“Everyone in Scotland who needs to use period products has the right under this Part to obtain them free of charge.”

Loads of questions arise from those opening lines alone. How? At what cost? Why everyone? Where? What products? What quality? After that, the bill really starts to unravel. My big concern was picked up in the committee’s report. It described the bill as

“legislation that would impose a duty on, as yet unidentified, public bodies which would have a cost but would not compel the Scottish Government to fund it, should it choose not to.”

In other words, bodies such as councils would be saddled with spending that might or might not be covered by the Government. That could be bordering on irresponsible when councils are making cuts in core services.

The bill requires the Government to draw up a scheme to implement that universal provision, but it would apply only to the public sector. To be fair to the Government, it has pretty much done that already without the need for legislation, and it is surely only fair to see how that works. Monica Lennon was not happy with that, though.

The committee’s other concern was that we have no idea at all about what any of it would cost. There is a huge disparity between what Monica Lennon said and the ludicrous figures that have been quoted by the Government.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
Our next item of business is a stage 1 debate on motion S5M-20756, in the name of Monica Lennon, on the Period Products (Free Provision) (Scotland) Bill. I c...
Monica Lennon (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
This debate is possible only because we are standing tall on the shoulders of previous generations of feminists, trade unionists and equality campaigners. Be...
James Dornan (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Local Government and Communities Committee. Today’s debate reflects the findings of the committee’s scrutiny, which we...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Will the member give way?
James Dornan SNP
I am just about to close. I will take an intervention if I have the time.
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
I can give you the time.
Neil Findlay Lab
How did James Dornan feel when Murdo Fraser’s member’s bill was included in its entirety, without having been through any consultation, in the legislation th...
James Dornan SNP
I am speaking as convener of the Local Government and Communities Committee. Given that we are talking about the Period Products (Free Provision) (Scotland) ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Local Government (Aileen Campbell) SNP
I am immensely proud that Scotland is a world leader on providing access to period products. Thanks to this Government’s actions, without waiting for legisla...
Monica Lennon Lab
I thank the cabinet secretary for the tone of her speech so far. It is important that we continue to work together. North Ayrshire Council launched free prov...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
There is extra time available if you need it, cabinet secretary.
Aileen Campbell SNP
Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. I know about the fantastic work that is being done in North Ayrshire. I visited Ardrossan academy to see some of th...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I associate myself with the words of Aileen Campbell. I agree with every word—well, most of what she said; not quite everything. I congratulate Monica Lenn...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I know that, across the country, people have been writing to members of the Scottish Parliament—they have certainly contacted me—to say that they want what h...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Those in the public gallery should not show appreciation or otherwise in any of the proceedings of the Parliament, please.
Graham Simpson Con
Nobody in the Parliament disagrees with what Monica Lennon is trying to achieve. The question is whether the bill is the right approach. The committee asked ...
Monica Lennon Lab
Will the member give way?
Graham Simpson Con
No. I am coming to an important bit of my speech. When the three of us committee members visited Perth, I had my eyes opened. I asked what people were payin...
Graham Simpson Con
I will take an intervention if I can get the time back.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I can give you the time back.
Monica Lennon Lab
I thank Graham Simpson for his contributions and for his work on the committee. I wonder whether he agrees that we have to be careful that, in asking questio...
Graham Simpson Con
One thing that should come out of this debate is that people should not be embarrassed about talking about those issues. If women have a particular medical c...
Graham Simpson Con
No. I am almost finished. As we head to stage 2, I say to Monica Lennon that the committee has a huge job to do. We must work with her. If we are going to ...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Scotland is on course to introduce the world’s most comprehensive legislation on free period products. That is thanks to Monica Lennon and her supporters, me...
James Dornan SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Pauline McNeill Lab
Not yet. The Tories are giving very mixed signals as to whether they support the general principles of the bill, and I was astonished at some of the argumen...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) SNP
I am not on the committee, but I have read the bill and I absolutely agree with what the member says about period poverty. However, does the member agree tha...
Pauline McNeill Lab
That was quite a long intervention. I agree with the member that there are issues with the registration schemes. However, this is a stage 1 debate in which ...
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
I commend Monica Lennon for bringing forward the bill. She has been campaigning on this topic since her arrival in Parliament and has worked hard to get it t...
James Dornan SNP
Will the member give way?