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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 11 March 2020

11 Mar 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Funded Childcare (Expansion)

I am grateful to Jamie Greene for his intervention. It is obvious that funders and providers need to be able to pay their staff the living wage and that they need to be properly supported and funded by local authorities. That issue needs to be examined further, as we go forward.

The anecdotal evidence is that some staff are returning to the private sector after a few months. That might be slightly helpful to some providers; however, it raises further questions about the sustainability of funded providers and the recruitment and retention of council-run services. The movement of staff between sectors—for which the planning should have started long before now, so that effective plans could be in place—needs to be better monitored at national and local levels. The recruitment and retention challenges for funded providers risk the sustainability of those services—if they are not sustainable, that would be a great loss to staff and to children and, most importantly, their families.

The biggest risk of the expansion surrounds the infrastructure projects that are due for completion before August 2020—that is only five months from now. Audit Scotland has told us that the infrastructure risk has risen to the maximum level. Half of the places that are expected to be created will come through infrastructure projects that are due to be ready between July and August. According to the Audit Scotland report, that equates to 303 projects, and we are warned that 250 of those are “critical” to meeting the expected demand.

We have also found out that there are a lack of contingency plans in place for many of the projects. Audit Scotland has told us that 83 are expected to be completed in the short space of time before August. For another 39 projects, we do not have such assurances.

Audit Scotland highlighted that Brexit would have an impact on the building work. However, we also face a greater threat that was not realised in the report: the potential spread of the coronavirus. I accept that the Scottish Government, like the rest of us, would not have factored a global pandemic into its planning. However, it knew the risks of the infrastructure programme in 2018, when Audit Scotland released its initial report. Two years later, those risks are the most pressing issue—with only a matter of months before the deadline.

Audit Scotland tells us that the expansion was ambitious. We have concerns that the speed of the expansion might have been poorly conceived. The expansion poses risks to the sustainability of partner providers and childminders. It is teetering on the edge, and the only way that we will find out about its success or failure will be through the experience of children and their families.

The Scottish Government has five months to get it right, and five months to prevent families from being let down. It must listen to the recommendations from Audit Scotland and to the Parliament today.

Scottish Labour wants to see the best quality childcare, led by committed, dedicated and well-paid staff.

I move amendment S5M-21177.1, to insert after “independent sectors;”:

“notes with regret what has been identified by Audit Scotland as a possible loophole that prevents staff being paid the real living wage;”.

15:12  
References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a Conservative Party debate on motion S5M-21177, in the name of Jamie Greene, on the expansion of funded childcare. 14:42
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
From August this year, universal funded early learning and childcare for three, four and vulnerable two-year-olds will increase from 600 to 1,140 hours per c...
The Minister for Children and Young People (Maree Todd) SNP
In September last year, 50,000 children across Scotland were already benefiting from additional high-quality early learning and childcare—high-quality learni...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Does the minister consider that “steady progress” is enough, given that only 40 per cent of the relevant children are receiving the increased hours, which me...
Maree Todd SNP
As I will go on to explain during the debate, I am absolutely confident that we will deliver in August 2020, and I will give my reasoning for that. The repo...
Jamie Halcro Johnston (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
The minister will be aware that the Peedie Breeks nursery in Orkney is scheduled to close in July. What consultation has she had with the local council about...
Maree Todd SNP
From my communication with the local authority, I understand that it is confident that places are available in the system already, despite the fact that that...
Jamie Greene Con
Saying that councils have robust contingency plans is one thing, but what are they? Where are the places? Where are the children actually going to go?
Maree Todd SNP
As Jamie Greene will be aware, members are perfectly at liberty to explore the robust contingency plans with the local authorities in their areas. I have bee...
Jamie Greene Con
What are they?
Maree Todd SNP
Why does the member not ask his local authority? Why does he not work with his local authority, just as I am doing? I turn to the workforce. It bears repeat...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
In March 2018, I asked the minister whether she would guarantee that local authorities would not be short of staff. She said: “I will absolutely give a guar...
Maree Todd SNP
Yes—I guarantee that we will not find ourselves short of staff by August 2020. I know that there are concerns about movement of staff from private and third...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
What does the minister have to say to the childminding sector, which is already expressing grave concerns about the delay in issuing guidance and where the s...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I can give you more time to cover the interventions, minister.
Maree Todd SNP
Thank you. We will come on to the issue of childminders, but I note that childminders are expected to more than double the proportion of ELC that they provi...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to open the debate for Scottish Labour. We have long supported the ambitions behind the early learning and childcare expansion to 1...
Jamie Greene Con
The Conservatives will support the Labour amendment, which makes a very valid point. The reality is that funded providers in the private sector are strugglin...
Mary Fee Lab
I am grateful to Jamie Greene for his intervention. It is obvious that funders and providers need to be able to pay their staff the living wage and that they...
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green) Green
I am grateful to the Scottish Conservatives for using their business time to enable us to debate progress in the expansion of funded childcare. If we delive...
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
I thank Jamie Greene for giving Parliament the opportunity to debate the Government’s progress in expanding early learning and childcare. The expansion is an...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. Can I have speeches of up to six minutes, please? I can allow a little time for interventions. 15:23
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the opportunity to debate the policy, because it is one of the most important in our most recent manifesto. The expansion to 1,140 hours of childca...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the minister take an intervention?
Clare Adamson SNP
I am a member. Laughter.
Brian Whittle Con
I am sorry; it is not up to me to promote Clare Adamson. In a previous debate, you raised concerns about the sector in your constituency. Are you now comfor...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Can members always speak through the chair, please?
Brian Whittle Con
I apologise.
Clare Adamson SNP
I believe that every member in the chamber is absolutely focused on delivering the best for our young people. Doing so involves scrutiny and taking on board ...
Mary Fee Lab
Will the member give way?