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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 05 February 2020

05 Feb 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Non-Domestic Rates (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
Johnson, Daniel Lab Edinburgh Southern Watch on SPTV

I remind members of my entry in the register of members’ interests. I am a member of the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers and the Federation of Small Businesses. I am also a director of a company with retail interests—and I say that not just because it is my duty to do so as a parliamentarian, but because I rise to speak as a disgruntled shopkeeper.

I will tell members of my history with the non-domestic rates regime. In 2010, when I was running my business, the rateable value of one of my units went from £12,000 to more than £45,000 following revaluation. The appeal, which I had to take to the Lands Tribunal for Scotland, took 18 months. The assessor’s explanation and rationale for the change was that I was no longer using an entrance to the shop and therefore the RV was being applied to another portion. To my mind, there was a flaw in that logic: access between the two parts of the shop had been blocked up in 1972, yet, 30 years later, that was used as the rationale for the increase in my RV.

I tell that story to make the point that, for many small business owners, including small retailers, the non-domestic rates regime is opaque and unintuitive; the increases have been sporadic; and it has been extremely difficult to appeal. The bill is welcome, but it really only addresses those last two points. The three-yearly revaluations will provide consistency and remove the sporadic and large increases that some businesses have experienced. Likewise, the alteration to the appeals system is welcome, as anything that streamlines that process is welcome. However, for many business owners, the system will continue to feel largely arbitrary and unfathomable.

There are three things that still need to be done. First, we need increased transparency, because the methodology by which rateable values are calculated is extremely difficult to understand. I know from looking at my rates bill and the calculations that were made when I was taking forward my appeal that there were plug figures—literally arbitrary numbers—that inflated the value of certain areas. I do not see anything in the bill that will change that.

In my local area, after the most recent revaluation, I surveyed shopkeepers and found that, on average, they had experienced a 10 per cent rise in their rateable values, whereas rents had been largely flat in the same period, which takes me on to the second thing that needs to be done. Fundamentally, the bill fails to examine and reform the assessor system. It is a legacy that largely reflects the regional tier of government, which we no longer have. Much greater oversight and scrutiny is needed of assessors so that their calculations and the work that they do are transparent.

Thirdly, we need the process to be much more streamlined and intuitive and more in line with modern business practice. Unless the bill is backed up with real reform of the processes and technology that are used, businesses will continue to have issues in dealing with the non-domestic rates regime.

The most important point in the debate is that we need a comprehensive review of local government finance and taxation. The points that Andy Wightman and Willie Rennie have made on that today and previously are absolutely right. We must have full fiscal devolution and fiscal responsibility for local government. That cannot happen if we have piecemeal reform of the taxation powers that local authorities have at their disposal. Until we have that comprehensive review, we will continue to have issues with the non-domestic rates regime.

18:13  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a stage 3 debate on motion S5M-20705, in the name of Kate Forbes, on the Non-Domestic Rates (Scotland) Bill. Before I invite Ka...
The Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Economy and Fair Work (Derek Mackay) SNP
For the purposes of rule 9.11 of the standing orders, I advise the Parliament that Her Majesty, having been informed of the purport of the Non-Domestic Rates...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you, Mr Mackay. I call Kate Forbes to speak to and move the motion, for up to seven minutes and no longer, please. 17:33
The Minister for Public Finance and Digital Economy (Kate Forbes) SNP
I am pleased to open the stage 3 debate on the Non-Domestic Rates (Scotland) Bill. I start with a number of thank yous, first to the Local Government and Com...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I will make some concluding remarks on the Non-Domestic Rates (Scotland) Bill. The bill will implement the findings of the Barclay review of non-domestic rat...
Keith Brown (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) SNP
Murdo Fraser has now mentioned Dollar for the second time today. Has he spoken to the rector of Dollar academy on this issue?
Murdo Fraser Con
Liz Smith has engaged with Dollar academy and many of the parents in Dollar on the issue and they share many of our concerns. There is a concern about this. ...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I begin by thanking everyone who has contributed to the debate on the bill, whether in yesterday’s proceedings or in any of the discussions that we have had ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You must come to a close, please.
Sarah Boyack Lab
In Ireland, the link has been made between rent pressure zones and affordable student accommodation. All politicians in this chamber have the job of listeni...
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
I, too, thank all those who have engaged in the process and who have supported the process in Parliament. I noted at stage 1—indeed, the minister mentioned ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Willie Rennie for up to four minutes. 17:56
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I get the point. Andy Wightman’s speech was typical of his approach to the bill, which he has brought to life. I hope not to embarrass him too much with pra...
Keith Brown SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Willie Rennie LD
Not just now. When you control the purse strings, you control your destiny. The sooner that we in Parliament learn that, the stronger our communities will b...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We now move to the open debate, in which speeches must be absolutely no more than four minutes long. I warn members that if they go over their time, it will ...
James Dornan (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) SNP
In my role as convener of the Local Government and Communities Committee, I thank our clerks, the team at the Scottish Parliament information centre, the Gov...
Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I am pleased to take part in tonight’s stage 3 debate on the Non-Domestic Rates (Scotland) Bill. As my colleague Murdo Fraser has outlined, the Scottish Cons...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I remind members of my entry in the register of members’ interests. I am a member of the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers and the Federation of...
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
I, too, thank the Local Government and Communities Committee clerks for all their hard work and sound advice as we took forward the bill. In looking at the ...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
It is not that the Tories are obsessed with the issue; it is a genuine concern of many parents who have children at independent schools.
Kenneth Gibson SNP
No one wants to pay more, but it is only a 1.3 per cent increase, when they are paying, on average, a 4 per cent increase in fees. Let us be honest—most of t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Come to a close, please.
Kenneth Gibson SNP
State schools pay rates. Private schools should pay rates, too, and I am delighted that the Parliament overwhelmingly agrees with that. 18:17
Sarah Boyack Lab
It makes me wonder how we get through our committee meetings. We have gone from James Dornan to Kenneth Gibson, who was as gracious as ever. The bill is not...
Mike Rumbles (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
Will the member take an intervention?
Sarah Boyack Lab
I will not. The minister will have the flexibility to look at individual schools that make a case to her, which was the point raised by Andy Wightman yester...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
This has been an interesting journey. It is fair to say that what looked like a fairly uncontroversial bill has proved to be anything but. However, I want to...
Kate Forbes SNP
Before I respond to some of the specific points that have been made, I commend Andy Wightman on his efforts to raise the profile of non-domestic rates and th...