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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 06 February 2020

06 Feb 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scottish Elections (Reform) Bill: Stage 1

It is a very odd day in the Scottish Parliament, because not only does Mr Findlay agree with me, but I agree with Mr Findlay—on this matter. We must, therefore, both be wrong. I would like the norm to be four or five-member wards, as it is three or four-member wards at the moment; only exceptionally should wards be smaller or larger than that.

The Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee noted what it called its disappointment that the Scottish Government did not commission more research into the matter of the proportionality of two-member wards and recommended that two-member wards should be used only in “very exceptional circumstances”. I agree with that recommendation and ask the minister whether he and his officials will commit to working with me and, indeed, other members who are interested in the matter to craft a stage 2 amendment to the bill that will ensure that overuse of two-member wards is not permitted or allowed to undercut the principle of proportionality on which our local government elections in Scotland are based.

Finally, on electronic voting and voter participation, I am sure that we all want to do what we can to encourage voting. High voter turnouts in elections are better than low voter turnouts, for everyone who believes in the democratic process. That said, however, some of the more frequent suggestions as to how voter turnout may be encouraged need to be treated with caution. Moving from Thursday elections to Friday or weekend elections would have grave implications for a number of religious groups, for example, and should, in my view, be resisted for that reason.

Likewise, moving to electronic voting should be resisted. It may have considerable benefits, not least for those who find access to polling stations a physical challenge, whether that is for reasons of poor sight or other physical disabilities, but other European countries with experience of electronic voting report serious concerns about security. Researchers have found the Swiss system to be flawed, the Estonian system is said to be outdated and open to attack, and in Finland the view has been taken that the security of online voting is not yet advanced enough to ensure either the confidentiality or the integrity of the voting system.

The bill does not enable electronic voting, but in section 6 it enables pilot projects, as the minister explained, which may include some form of electronic voting. The committee describes that

“light-touch approach”

as

“probably the most appropriate approach”

and I cautiously agree. There is a need to proceed with great caution, given the very real concerns about security that have been voiced across Europe. At the same time, consideration must be given to the accessibility of polling stations, as I have already said. Therefore, while cautiously welcoming section 6 of the bill, I ask the minister to specify how he proposes to ensure that any pilots exploring the use of electronic voting in Scotland will make sure that the integrity of our voting system is not compromised by untested technology.

Overall, we are supportive of the bill at stage 1, but we look forward to working with the Government and, indeed, with members from across the chamber on amendments that address the concerns that I have outlined.

16:33  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-20740, in the name of Graeme Dey, on the Scottish Elections (Reform) Bill at stage 1. 16:12
The Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans (Graeme Dey) SNP
I thank the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee for its scrutiny of the bill and its stage 1 report. I also thank the Local Government an...
Bill Kidd (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) SNP
As the convener of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee, I am pleased to speak on behalf of the committee in this debate. As has been...
Richard Lyle (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) SNP
I note that the consultation included a proposal to remove the current legal requirement for candidates’ addresses to appear on ballot papers for local gover...
Bill Kidd SNP
I thank the member for raising that subject, which was discussed in committee. A number of people raised concerns with us about security and safety, which ha...
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
Broadly, we welcome the bill, and we will be supporting it at stage 1. It contains mainly technical, but nonetheless important, changes to aspects of elector...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Adam Tomkins Con
Let me finish my point and then I will let Mr Findlay in—if I have time, Presiding Officer. Surely, we do not want the new flexibility, which section 4 of t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
There is time for interventions.
Neil Findlay Lab
I very much agree with what Adam Tomkins is saying, but the committee took evidence from one academic who argued for very large wards in order to ensure prop...
Adam Tomkins Con
It is a very odd day in the Scottish Parliament, because not only does Mr Findlay agree with me, but I agree with Mr Findlay—on this matter. We must, therefo...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I thank the committee’s members and convener and the clerks who have been helping us through the bill. We have had some very interesting evidence sessions. I...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Mark Ruskell to open for the Green Party. Mr Ruskell, I will be generous with you, also. 16:40
Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Green
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I join other members in thanking the clerks, all those who gave evidence, and the other members of the committee for their cons...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I do not know what Neil Findlay is talking about; this is the stuff that Liberal Democrats love to talk about. I was formerly an election agent and I would s...
Neil Findlay Lab
As Willie Rennie is a Liberal Democrat, that is the least surprising thing that I have ever heard.
Willie Rennie LD
Neil Findlay and I might have one of those discussions ourselves—I might inflict that on him. Adam Tomkins is objecting to that for some reason. During the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We now move to the open debate. Speeches should be of up to five minutes. 16:51
Gil Paterson (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) SNP
As Neil Findlay and other members from across the chamber have said, on the face of it the Scottish Elections (Reform) Bill might seem to be dry and technica...
Tom Mason (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Because elements of the bill relate to local government, I declare an interest as a councillor in Aberdeen City Council. The Standards, Procedures and Publi...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Like colleagues in the chamber, I think that the bill represents a welcome opportunity to consider how we can improve our electoral process. As the Electoral...
Tom Mason Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Sarah Boyack Lab
Yes, briefly.
Tom Mason Con
Is it the case that up to very recently—when we left the European Union—every member of the Scottish community had 19 elected representatives?
Sarah Boyack Lab
We do not have the same level of local representation that there is in the rest of the EU. Everybody has focused on proportionality, which I totally agree w...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You will have to be quick.
Sarah Boyack Lab
I ask the minister to have a look at multimember wards, which have been mentioned by a couple of members, and do a proper review of how they have worked and ...
Annabelle Ewing (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to speak in the stage 1 debate on the Scottish Elections (Reform) Bill. As we know, the bill is part of a package of measures that are intended ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to closing speeches. 17:13
Neil Findlay Lab
At the beginning of the debate, Gil Paterson made an important point about the desire to see every election have its own focus. That is right. When elections...