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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 05 February 2020

05 Feb 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Non-Domestic Rates (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
Fraser, Murdo Con Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

Liz Smith has engaged with Dollar academy and many of the parents in Dollar on the issue and they share many of our concerns. There is a concern about this.

What we have not heard from the Scottish Government, or from the minister yesterday, is any attempt to defend or justify the policy. I suspect that what really lies behind it is that it is an easy sector to attack. It has few political friends. This all has the unhealthy stench of the politics of envy. That is the reason why, with regret, we cannot support the bill despite agreeing with a lot of what it contains.

There is a broader point in relation to rates. Although the Barclay review recommendations are generally positive, our concern is that they do not go far enough. There is a serious debate to be had about the future of the rating system more generally. What we have seen in recent years are a number of sticking-plaster solutions being introduced to deal with complaints from businesses about rates increases from revaluations, such as the reliefs that have been brought in for the hospitality sector and for offices in the north-east of Scotland. Moving from a five-year to a three-year cycle will improve matters, but it will not eradicate the problem entirely.

There is also a serious question as to whether a property-based tax is still relevant, particularly as it relates to a sector such as retail, in an environment in which retail is increasingly under pressure from online traders. There is simply no level playing field between online retail and the sector that has to support high street premises. Therefore, it is our view that a more fundamental look at the whole rating system is required, as is being proposed by the Government south of the border. I know that that view is widely supported in the business community, and I hope that the Scottish Government will undertake such an exercise in the future.

No discussion on rates would be complete without a mention of the large business supplement, which in Scotland is currently set at a rate that is nearly double that south of the border. More than 5,000 retail premises in Scotland pay the LBS and, cumulatively, they contribute more than £14 million annually. The higher rate in Scotland puts those businesses at a competitive disadvantage to businesses in the rest of the UK. The LBS is a measure that is long overdue for being dealt with and—who knows?—maybe the Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Economy and Fair Work will have some good news for us on that in tomorrow’s budget.

Although there is much in the bill that we support, because of the tax raid on independent schools, which will damage local economies and which seems to be motivated purely by the politics of envy, I regret that we will not be able to support it at decision time.

17:46  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a stage 3 debate on motion S5M-20705, in the name of Kate Forbes, on the Non-Domestic Rates (Scotland) Bill. Before I invite Ka...
The Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Economy and Fair Work (Derek Mackay) SNP
For the purposes of rule 9.11 of the standing orders, I advise the Parliament that Her Majesty, having been informed of the purport of the Non-Domestic Rates...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you, Mr Mackay. I call Kate Forbes to speak to and move the motion, for up to seven minutes and no longer, please. 17:33
The Minister for Public Finance and Digital Economy (Kate Forbes) SNP
I am pleased to open the stage 3 debate on the Non-Domestic Rates (Scotland) Bill. I start with a number of thank yous, first to the Local Government and Com...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I will make some concluding remarks on the Non-Domestic Rates (Scotland) Bill. The bill will implement the findings of the Barclay review of non-domestic rat...
Keith Brown (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) SNP
Murdo Fraser has now mentioned Dollar for the second time today. Has he spoken to the rector of Dollar academy on this issue?
Murdo Fraser Con
Liz Smith has engaged with Dollar academy and many of the parents in Dollar on the issue and they share many of our concerns. There is a concern about this. ...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I begin by thanking everyone who has contributed to the debate on the bill, whether in yesterday’s proceedings or in any of the discussions that we have had ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You must come to a close, please.
Sarah Boyack Lab
In Ireland, the link has been made between rent pressure zones and affordable student accommodation. All politicians in this chamber have the job of listeni...
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
I, too, thank all those who have engaged in the process and who have supported the process in Parliament. I noted at stage 1—indeed, the minister mentioned ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Willie Rennie for up to four minutes. 17:56
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I get the point. Andy Wightman’s speech was typical of his approach to the bill, which he has brought to life. I hope not to embarrass him too much with pra...
Keith Brown SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Willie Rennie LD
Not just now. When you control the purse strings, you control your destiny. The sooner that we in Parliament learn that, the stronger our communities will b...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We now move to the open debate, in which speeches must be absolutely no more than four minutes long. I warn members that if they go over their time, it will ...
James Dornan (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) SNP
In my role as convener of the Local Government and Communities Committee, I thank our clerks, the team at the Scottish Parliament information centre, the Gov...
Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I am pleased to take part in tonight’s stage 3 debate on the Non-Domestic Rates (Scotland) Bill. As my colleague Murdo Fraser has outlined, the Scottish Cons...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I remind members of my entry in the register of members’ interests. I am a member of the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers and the Federation of...
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
I, too, thank the Local Government and Communities Committee clerks for all their hard work and sound advice as we took forward the bill. In looking at the ...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
It is not that the Tories are obsessed with the issue; it is a genuine concern of many parents who have children at independent schools.
Kenneth Gibson SNP
No one wants to pay more, but it is only a 1.3 per cent increase, when they are paying, on average, a 4 per cent increase in fees. Let us be honest—most of t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Come to a close, please.
Kenneth Gibson SNP
State schools pay rates. Private schools should pay rates, too, and I am delighted that the Parliament overwhelmingly agrees with that. 18:17
Sarah Boyack Lab
It makes me wonder how we get through our committee meetings. We have gone from James Dornan to Kenneth Gibson, who was as gracious as ever. The bill is not...
Mike Rumbles (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
Will the member take an intervention?
Sarah Boyack Lab
I will not. The minister will have the flexibility to look at individual schools that make a case to her, which was the point raised by Andy Wightman yester...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
This has been an interesting journey. It is fair to say that what looked like a fairly uncontroversial bill has proved to be anything but. However, I want to...
Kate Forbes SNP
Before I respond to some of the specific points that have been made, I commend Andy Wightman on his efforts to raise the profile of non-domestic rates and th...