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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 05 February 2020

05 Feb 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Tax and Public Spending
Forbes, Kate SNP Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch Watch on SPTV

Why have a budget debate once when you can have one three, four or five times? I am delighted to be here again to talk about the budget, which will be published tomorrow in the context of unprecedented uncertainty. The UK Government’s decision to defer the UK budget from 6 November to 11 March means that we still do not have the certainty that we would normally have when we publish our budget for the coming year.

We have been forced to publish our budget ahead of the UK Government’s budget in order to provide the clarity that local authorities, third sector organisations and ratepayers expect. Without the UK Government’s tax and spending decisions and the updated fiscal forecasts, we do not have as much clarity on public services as we would like. As the Scottish Government’s budget will come out before the UK Government’s budget, I can only assume that the Tories’ call for no tax divergence is actually targeted at the UK Government, which will have the opportunity to replicate the Scottish Government’s decisions to reduce any such divergence.

As a responsible Government, we have a duty to balance our budget this year, as we have done every previous year. We are well aware of the challenges that the Fraser of Allander institute has set out. It is worth reflecting on the points that have repeatedly been made by the Conservatives about the so-called Boris bonus, because, since 2010, the Scottish Government’s budget—in terms of day-to-day spending—has fallen. That is the reality of UK Government funding over that decade. I do not think that even Murdo Fraser would argue that this year’s potential increase in funding reverses the decade of austerity that the Scottish Government has had to operate in.

By contrast, the Scottish Government has taken action to deliver certainty for our public services. That can be seen in relation to, for example, local government funding, with the finance spokesperson for the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities saying that councils in Tory-run England and Labour-run Wales are “collapsing”, whereas, in Scotland, we see local government working in partnership with the Scottish Government to ensure that the people of Scotland receive the services that they expect.

I will turn to the specifics that have been raised in the amendments and in members’ interventions so far. We recognise that tomorrow is an important day. It is important because it will provide clarity and because it will continue the theme that the Government has been developing over the past few years with regard to ensuring that our partners in local authorities are protected from the austerity that we have been at the receiving end of.

The Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Economy and Fair Work will announce his tax policy proposals in tomorrow’s budget. Of course, I will not be drawn on those today, but we continue to ensure that Scotland is subject to the fairest and most progressive taxes in the UK. In fact, since the Fraser of Allander institute has been consistently quoted in every budget debate, it is worth quoting that, last year, it said:

“We estimate that the Scottish income tax policy raises approximately around £550 million in revenue compared to a policy to set the same tax parameters as in the UK.”

The question for the Conservatives is, where would they have made cuts in order to meet that £550 million shortfall in the past year?

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-20716, in the name of Murdo Fraser, on there being no case for tax increases or further cuts to public sp...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Tomorrow, the Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Economy and Fair Work will set out his budget for the coming financial year. I think that we are all looking for...
The Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Economy and Fair Work (Derek Mackay) SNP
That is not true.
Murdo Fraser Con
If the finance secretary wants to intervene and explain to me why that is not true, I will give way.
Derek Mackay SNP
Does Murdo Fraser not understand—or, indeed, know—that the tax forecasts are made by the Scottish Fiscal Commission and not by the Scottish Government?
Murdo Fraser Con
I regret to tell the finance secretary that he is wrong, because the overestimate that I referred to was an estimate that was made by the Scottish Government...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Does Murdo Fraser accept that it was not entirely the Government that was responsible for that estimate, and that Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs did not k...
Murdo Fraser Con
John Mason makes a reasonable point in relation to the original forecast of tax revenues, but my point is that we now have much better information for the fo...
The Minister for Public Finance and Digital Economy (Kate Forbes) SNP
Will Murdo Fraser give way?
Murdo Fraser Con
No. Let me make some progress. Our proposals are costed at £777 million. I was therefore rather surprised to see that the Government’s amendment to our moti...
Kate Forbes SNP
Would Murdo Fraser be willing to publish his costings and associated lines?
Murdo Fraser Con
I would be absolutely delighted to do that. I will pass them across the chamber to the finance minister right now. The two areas that we view as priorities ...
Murdo Fraser Con
Mr Rennie caught my eye first, so I will give way to him.
Willie Rennie LD
I hear what Murdo Fraser is saying, which is why I am confused that his motion and budget proposals implicitly support the tax rise by refusing to reverse it...
Murdo Fraser Con
I am grateful for Willie Rennie’s intervention, because I was just going to make precisely that point. He has given me a cue to do that. I would dearly love...
Patrick Harvie Green
Will the member take an intervention?
Murdo Fraser Con
I need to make some progress. My colleagues will set out in more detail later in the debate our priorities for public services spending, but when it comes t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Kate Forbes to speak to and move amendment S5M-20716.4. 15:33
The Minister for Public Finance and Digital Economy (Kate Forbes) SNP
Why have a budget debate once when you can have one three, four or five times? I am delighted to be here again to talk about the budget, which will be publis...
Murdo Fraser Con
On that point, would the minister accept the point that was made in evidence to the Finance and Constitution Committee last week by the Fraser of Allander in...
Kate Forbes SNP
It is worth reflecting on two points. The first is that, at the beginning of the process of the devolution of tax-raising powers, there will inevitably be qu...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
Can the minister confirm that we will not see any more of the cuts that we have seen to drug and alcohol budgets from this SNP Government?
Kate Forbes SNP
I look forward to the member participating in tomorrow’s budget debate. I am, of course, not going to confirm anything that will be in the budget tomorrow, b...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
Austerity has caused untold harm to our communities. Surely, none of us came into politics to see a world in which families are dependent on food banks, maln...
Patrick Harvie Green
I am glad that the member agrees that a climate emergency budget is necessary and that public investment must be forthcoming. Is the Labour Party’s position ...
Rhoda Grant Lab
That question leads me nicely on to an intervention that we have proposed, which is for free bus travel for the under-25s. That not only would increase the u...
John Mason SNP
Will the member give way?
Rhoda Grant Lab
I am quite short of time and I wish to make a number of points. That approach has had an impact on lifeline services and, in turn, on the most vulnerable pe...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You must conclude and move your amendment, please.
Rhoda Grant Lab
I will move to my conclusion, Presiding Officer. Our budget requests are realistic—