Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 29 January 2020
29 Jan 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland’s Future
In a moment.
I accept that many people in this chamber—including the member who is trying to intervene—and across the country take a different view on independence. That is entirely legitimate. However, what should be beyond any democratic argument, in the light of the material change of circumstances that Brexit represents, is that it must be Scotland’s choice to make. It must be for this Parliament, not Westminster, to determine when and on what basis an independence referendum should take place—a view that is backed by more than 60 per cent of people in Scotland, as was shown in a poll at the weekend.
On that point, I am happy to give way.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-20615, in the name of Nicola Sturgeon, on Scotland’s future. 14:41
The First Minister (Nicola Sturgeon)
SNP
Today, I ask Parliament to endorse a basic but fundamental principle: that Scotland’s future should be decided not by politicians at Westminster who have not...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
I do not support independence—that will be no surprise to the First Minister. However, had the motion been more realistic and rational, I might have voted fo...
The First Minister
SNP
Neil Findlay has a more respectable position on the issue than many of his colleagues, but he either accepts Scotland’s right to choose our own future or he ...
Jackson Carlaw (Eastwood) (Con)
Con
Will the First Minister give way?
The First Minister
SNP
I hope that Jackson Carlaw will back our migration proposals.
Jackson Carlaw
Con
If the First Minister was trying to build a genuine consensus in this Parliament on the proposals, she might have circulated them or offered them to the lead...
The First Minister
SNP
I assure Jackson Carlaw that the proposals are available on the internet. I am sure that he is able to use a computer. However, in the interests of consensus...
Mike Rumbles (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
Will the First Minister give way?
The First Minister
SNP
In a moment. I accept that many people in this chamber—including the member who is trying to intervene—and across the country take a different view on indep...
Mike Rumbles
LD
It is appropriate that the First Minister gives way on that point, because she has just cited an opinion poll that puts the figure at 60 per cent. However, w...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Order. Can we hear the question, please?
Mike Rumbles
LD
Some members might not like that, but it is a fact. How about recognising a democratic mandate?
The First Minister
SNP
I know of at least one Liberal Democrat candidate who stood in that election in Scotland and backed Scottish independence, so Mike Rumbles’s argument is some...
Jackson Carlaw (Eastwood) (Con)
Con
I thank the First Minister for fulfilling—for the first time, in my experience—a promise that she made here, in the Parliament. I have just received a copy o...
The First Minister
SNP
Will Jackson Carlaw address the fact that Scotland, against its will, will be taken out of the EU in two days? He used to oppose that but is now a born-again...
Jackson Carlaw
Con
I am speaking to the amendment in my name, which concentrates on the priorities that the people of Scotland want to see addressed. Most people will see the ...
Richard Leonard (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I completely understand that the thought of five more years of a Boris Johnson Government is driving some people to despair and others to anger, and that dis...
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give way?
Richard Leonard
Lab
I am in my final minute. Our vision is a realistic vision of not just a redistribution of power between Parliaments, but a redistribution of power and wealt...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Order, please.
Richard Leonard
Lab
—giving hope to our young people and dignity to our pensioners in retirement, meeting the challenges of climate change and technological change, creating the...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Before I call Willie Rennie to speak on behalf of the Liberal Democrats, I ask members to stop the on-going heckling. That applies to members across the cham...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD)
LD
When I saw the wording of the motion and realised that we would have not just one but two speeches on independence this week, I wondered whether the debate w...
The First Minister
SNP
Will Willie Rennie give way?
Willie Rennie
LD
Not just now. Members: Aw!
Willie Rennie
LD
I will come to the First Minister in a second, when I am ready. The First Minister softened the message during the general election. She appealed to Labour ...
The First Minister
SNP
Will the member give way?
Willie Rennie
LD
Not just now. There was hardly any mention of independence at that stage, then talk of it was ramped right up after the general election. The First Minister...
The First Minister
SNP
Willie Rennie has set out what, in his view, does not constitute a mandate for an independence referendum. Perhaps he could use some of his time to tell us w...