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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 29 January 2020

29 Jan 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland’s Future

I assure Jackson Carlaw that the proposals are available on the internet. I am sure that he is able to use a computer. However, in the interests of consensus, I will ensure that a copy of the proposals is personally delivered to Jackson Carlaw’s office later this afternoon. Perhaps we can then get his support for the proposals and he can try to persuade the UK Government not to dismiss them out of hand. I will wait for that intervention from Jackson Carlaw.

Having our future imposed on us by a UK Government that is utterly contemptuous of our views is not good enough. It is a Government that is contemptuous of our interests and that seems intent not on preserving a close relationship with the EU but on diverging and deregulating. What that means for the future of workers’ rights, environmental protections, the shape of our economy and the nature of our society is profound.

Labour, in particular, should reflect on this point. If it continues to stand against the right of the Scottish people to even consider a different future, it is that Tory vision for Scotland’s future that it is giving the green light to—a Tory vision that is driven on the part of some by jingoism and xenophobia; a Tory vision that will narrow the horizons of the next generation, make the country poorer and hit hardest those who are already poor and vulnerable. If Labour stands aside and lets that come to pass, it will be on Labour just as much as it is on the Conservatives.

At the heart of all this is a basic fact. Brexit—and everything that will flow from it—is happening against the will of the vast majority of the Scottish people. It is an affront to democracy and, of course, it represents a material change of circumstances from those that we faced in the 2014 independence referendum. Back then, the message from those on the anti-independence side could not have been clearer. The only way to protect EU membership, they said, was to reject independence. As Ruth Davidson said:

“No means we stay in. We are members of the European Union”.

Of course, we were also told back then that the Tories would probably not win the next election and that the prospect of Boris Johnson becoming Prime Minister was just a scare story. Yet now, because we are not independent, we have a Boris Johnson-led majority Government that Scotland did not vote for and we stand just two days away from losing our EU membership and all the rights that go with it.

In my view, it is now beyond doubt that the only realistic way for Scotland to return to the heart of Europe and ensure that we get the Governments that we vote for is to become an independent country.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-20615, in the name of Nicola Sturgeon, on Scotland’s future. 14:41
The First Minister (Nicola Sturgeon) SNP
Today, I ask Parliament to endorse a basic but fundamental principle: that Scotland’s future should be decided not by politicians at Westminster who have not...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I do not support independence—that will be no surprise to the First Minister. However, had the motion been more realistic and rational, I might have voted fo...
The First Minister SNP
Neil Findlay has a more respectable position on the issue than many of his colleagues, but he either accepts Scotland’s right to choose our own future or he ...
Jackson Carlaw (Eastwood) (Con) Con
Will the First Minister give way?
The First Minister SNP
I hope that Jackson Carlaw will back our migration proposals.
Jackson Carlaw Con
If the First Minister was trying to build a genuine consensus in this Parliament on the proposals, she might have circulated them or offered them to the lead...
The First Minister SNP
I assure Jackson Carlaw that the proposals are available on the internet. I am sure that he is able to use a computer. However, in the interests of consensus...
Mike Rumbles (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
Will the First Minister give way?
The First Minister SNP
In a moment. I accept that many people in this chamber—including the member who is trying to intervene—and across the country take a different view on indep...
Mike Rumbles LD
It is appropriate that the First Minister gives way on that point, because she has just cited an opinion poll that puts the figure at 60 per cent. However, w...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Order. Can we hear the question, please?
Mike Rumbles LD
Some members might not like that, but it is a fact. How about recognising a democratic mandate?
The First Minister SNP
I know of at least one Liberal Democrat candidate who stood in that election in Scotland and backed Scottish independence, so Mike Rumbles’s argument is some...
Jackson Carlaw (Eastwood) (Con) Con
I thank the First Minister for fulfilling—for the first time, in my experience—a promise that she made here, in the Parliament. I have just received a copy o...
The First Minister SNP
Will Jackson Carlaw address the fact that Scotland, against its will, will be taken out of the EU in two days? He used to oppose that but is now a born-again...
Jackson Carlaw Con
I am speaking to the amendment in my name, which concentrates on the priorities that the people of Scotland want to see addressed. Most people will see the ...
Richard Leonard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I completely understand that the thought of five more years of a Boris Johnson Government is driving some people to despair and others to anger, and that dis...
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
Richard Leonard Lab
I am in my final minute. Our vision is a realistic vision of not just a redistribution of power between Parliaments, but a redistribution of power and wealt...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Order, please.
Richard Leonard Lab
—giving hope to our young people and dignity to our pensioners in retirement, meeting the challenges of climate change and technological change, creating the...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Before I call Willie Rennie to speak on behalf of the Liberal Democrats, I ask members to stop the on-going heckling. That applies to members across the cham...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
When I saw the wording of the motion and realised that we would have not just one but two speeches on independence this week, I wondered whether the debate w...
The First Minister SNP
Will Willie Rennie give way?
Willie Rennie LD
Not just now. Members: Aw!
Willie Rennie LD
I will come to the First Minister in a second, when I am ready. The First Minister softened the message during the general election. She appealed to Labour ...
The First Minister SNP
Will the member give way?
Willie Rennie LD
Not just now. There was hardly any mention of independence at that stage, then talk of it was ramped right up after the general election. The First Minister...
The First Minister SNP
Willie Rennie has set out what, in his view, does not constitute a mandate for an independence referendum. Perhaps he could use some of his time to tell us w...