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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 29 January 2020

29 Jan 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Recognising Scotland in Europe
Baker, Claire Lab Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

I am aware of the motion that was previously lodged and I understand that members have a range of views across the Parliament, but the corporate body is elected to represent the Parliament and made its decision in good faith. I have concerns about the Parliament being prepared to overturn that decision and undermine our colleagues on the SPCB.

I recognise that there is a certain logic to the decision. The Scottish Parliament flies flags of unions that we are members of and, by the weekend, we will no longer be a member of the European Union. I have heard the case that it is a Council of Europe flag, which was adopted by the EU, but that does not reflect the reality of how the flag is universally recognised or acknowledge that the Council of Europe often adapts the flag to distinguish it for its own use. The proposal to fly the EU flag on Europe day brings the Scottish Parliament’s policy into line with the Scottish Government’s flag policy for Scottish Government buildings in Scotland.

We should respect the independence of the corporate body and respect the decision of its members, a decision that was unanimous until it became a political football. We are not talking about a Government building, which arguably has a political identity, or about a building that is owned by one political party that can exert its will over the operations of Parliament.

We are a responsible and respected elected Parliament, and the neutrality of the institution is important. There will be an important role for the Parliament to play in fostering European and international relationships, recognising the work of the Presiding Officer’s office and the international office. As parliamentarians, we all have a role to play in welcoming migrants to Scotland and valuing their contribution, and we should be focusing on how we do that. The immigration policy that was published this week could be an example of where we can work together to make a positive difference.

I have regard to the argument that challenges whether this debate is the best use of parliamentary time. Although it is a short debate, it has still absorbed the resources of the Parliament in the week that we are leaving the EU. This is a time when we should be focusing on the real challenges that Scotland faces as a consequence of the decision to leave the EU, and I do not believe that that is encapsulated in a debate about whether to fly a flag.

If, after today, the EU flag stays up outside the Parliament, does it really matter? I do not believe that the flying of the flag will define our future relationship with Europe and, although the flag reflects our relationship in law, it is not illegal for us to continue to fly it. What is problematic is the way in which this debate politicises the decision, undermines the status of the corporate body and questions its ability to act independently of Parliament, and leaves the institution open to accusations of political motive. Those are the issues that we need to reflect on.

I move amendment S5M-20625.1, to leave out from “as a symbol of membership” to end and insert:

“in recognition of membership of the European Union; continues to welcome and value EU citizens who have made their home in Scotland and the huge contribution that they make; recognises the importance of the future relationship within the family of European nations and the important role that the Scottish Parliament has in fostering that; notes the explanation brought forward by the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body (SPCB) as to why it took the decision to stop flying the flag of the European Union, and recognises that such decisions are best made by the SPCB operating on a non-partisan basis.”

13:52  
References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
Good afternoon, everyone. The first item of business is a debate on motion S5M-20625, in the name of Fiona Hyslop, on recognising Scotland in Europe.
The Cabinet Secretary for Culture, Tourism and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop) SNP
This debate is a direct consequence of Scotland being removed from the European Union against the clear majority view expressed by the people of Scotland in ...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Fiona Hyslop SNP
No, I am not giving way. The Parliament has, in the past, flown different flags in solidarity with different peoples at different times. I have lost count o...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Does the cabinet secretary recognise that there are values within this Parliament, some of which are on the mace at the front of the chamber, that are to do ...
Fiona Hyslop SNP
I will cover those points later in my speech. Our simple message to those EU citizens who are living here in Scotland is that we want them to stay. Scotland...
Neil Findlay Lab
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I do not know whether the same is true of other parties, but my party has no back-bench speakers in this debate. I wo...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
That is not a valid point of order. Interruption. Mr Findlay, please be quiet. It is not a valid point of order. It is up to the speaker whether to take inte...
Fiona Hyslop SNP
It is worth reflecting on the fact that, regardless of Brexit, the UK will remain a member of the Council of Europe. The European convention on human rights,...
Mike Rumbles (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Can I have some clarification on the motion? I read the motion in the Business Bulletin and it was about giving a dir...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The corporate body is part of this Parliament, and this Parliament is now debating items that are relevant to the corporate body.
Fiona Hyslop SNP
That is the point that I was coming to. Holding this debate to seek to give a direction to the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body is not a step that we h...
Mike Rumbles LD
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I must be a little bit deaf, or maybe I am misunderstanding what the Government has suggested. Did it suggest that th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The content of any speech is up to the cabinet secretary. If she wishes to repeat that point, I am sure that you will hear it clearly if other members in the...
Fiona Hyslop SNP
I have said it a few times now, so I am quite happy for the member to read the Official Report to understand the precedent that I am talking about. It is not...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Excuse me, cabinet secretary. The cabinet secretary is coming to a close. There should be no more interventions.
Fiona Hyslop SNP
The role of the Presiding Officer in reading the mood of parliamentarians across the chamber is key. The Scottish Government has always accepted that the co...
Neil Findlay Lab
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. If the Parliament were to agree to the motion, it would be overturning a decision of the corporate body—I think, for ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
That is not technically a point of order. However, I refer the member to the terms of the Scotland Act 1998. If he feels very strongly about such matters, he...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I would like to focus my comments on my experience as a former member of the corporate body. However, first, let me apologise to the carers who are in the Pa...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Liz Smith has made important points. However, the critical and fundamental one is that the architecture of these institutions was put together with great car...
Liz Smith Con
I absolutely agree with Daniel Johnson. The issue is one of collective responsibility, which is exactly the basis on which the recent decision about the Euro...
Fiona Hyslop SNP
Having seen it at first hand, I genuinely believe in the importance of consensus in the role of the corporate body. However, in a highly political situation ...
Liz Smith Con
I completely disagree. I am not wrong: the corporate body’s decision was not overturned in the case of the Calman commission. The SPCB was given an advisory ...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
The debate is unfortunate. First, it is a fact that we are leaving the EU, which is a decision that I regret but is now unavoidable. Secondly, there is an at...
Jenny Gilruth (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Claire Baker Lab
Yes, although I am very short on time.
Jenny Gilruth SNP
When a former Labour MSP lodged a motion on the subject, proud Europeans such as our colleague David Stewart and Alex Cole-Hamilton were able to support that...
Claire Baker Lab
I am aware of the motion that was previously lodged and I understand that members have a range of views across the Parliament, but the corporate body is elec...