Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 29 January 2020
29 Jan 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Recognising Scotland in Europe
The debate is unfortunate. First, it is a fact that we are leaving the EU, which is a decision that I regret but is now unavoidable. Secondly, there is an attempt to frame the debate as a kind of test of our commitment to EU citizens. Many of us are concerned about the EU citizens who live in Scotland and we need to provide reassurance that they are welcome and valued; that needs to take place in a meaningful way. Thirdly, this is the first time I can recall the Parliament being prepared to overturn a decision that was made by the SPCB. We have to ask ourselves what that means for the governance of the Parliament.
If the vote is won by a small margin and it changes the decision of the SPCB, that will set a precedent for a narrow vote to overrule the corporate body and there is a clear risk of the Parliament beginning to direct and politicise the corporate body. We elect members from each political party to serve on the corporate body and they are expected to leave their politics at the door when they take on the role and make decisions in good faith for the benefit of the Parliament and all of its staff.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani)
SNP
Good afternoon, everyone. The first item of business is a debate on motion S5M-20625, in the name of Fiona Hyslop, on recognising Scotland in Europe.
The Cabinet Secretary for Culture, Tourism and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop)
SNP
This debate is a direct consequence of Scotland being removed from the European Union against the clear majority view expressed by the people of Scotland in ...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
No, I am not giving way. The Parliament has, in the past, flown different flags in solidarity with different peoples at different times. I have lost count o...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Does the cabinet secretary recognise that there are values within this Parliament, some of which are on the mace at the front of the chamber, that are to do ...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I will cover those points later in my speech. Our simple message to those EU citizens who are living here in Scotland is that we want them to stay. Scotland...
Neil Findlay
Lab
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I do not know whether the same is true of other parties, but my party has no back-bench speakers in this debate. I wo...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
That is not a valid point of order. Interruption. Mr Findlay, please be quiet. It is not a valid point of order. It is up to the speaker whether to take inte...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
It is worth reflecting on the fact that, regardless of Brexit, the UK will remain a member of the Council of Europe. The European convention on human rights,...
Mike Rumbles (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Can I have some clarification on the motion? I read the motion in the Business Bulletin and it was about giving a dir...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
The corporate body is part of this Parliament, and this Parliament is now debating items that are relevant to the corporate body.
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
That is the point that I was coming to. Holding this debate to seek to give a direction to the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body is not a step that we h...
Mike Rumbles
LD
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I must be a little bit deaf, or maybe I am misunderstanding what the Government has suggested. Did it suggest that th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
The content of any speech is up to the cabinet secretary. If she wishes to repeat that point, I am sure that you will hear it clearly if other members in the...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I have said it a few times now, so I am quite happy for the member to read the Official Report to understand the precedent that I am talking about. It is not...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Excuse me, cabinet secretary. The cabinet secretary is coming to a close. There should be no more interventions.
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
The role of the Presiding Officer in reading the mood of parliamentarians across the chamber is key. The Scottish Government has always accepted that the co...
Neil Findlay
Lab
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. If the Parliament were to agree to the motion, it would be overturning a decision of the corporate body—I think, for ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
That is not technically a point of order. However, I refer the member to the terms of the Scotland Act 1998. If he feels very strongly about such matters, he...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I would like to focus my comments on my experience as a former member of the corporate body. However, first, let me apologise to the carers who are in the Pa...
Daniel Johnson
Lab
Liz Smith has made important points. However, the critical and fundamental one is that the architecture of these institutions was put together with great car...
Liz Smith
Con
I absolutely agree with Daniel Johnson. The issue is one of collective responsibility, which is exactly the basis on which the recent decision about the Euro...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
Having seen it at first hand, I genuinely believe in the importance of consensus in the role of the corporate body. However, in a highly political situation ...
Liz Smith
Con
I completely disagree. I am not wrong: the corporate body’s decision was not overturned in the case of the Calman commission. The SPCB was given an advisory ...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
The debate is unfortunate. First, it is a fact that we are leaving the EU, which is a decision that I regret but is now unavoidable. Secondly, there is an at...
Jenny Gilruth (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Claire Baker
Lab
Yes, although I am very short on time.
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
When a former Labour MSP lodged a motion on the subject, proud Europeans such as our colleague David Stewart and Alex Cole-Hamilton were able to support that...
Claire Baker
Lab
I am aware of the motion that was previously lodged and I understand that members have a range of views across the Parliament, but the corporate body is elec...