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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 29 January 2020

29 Jan 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Recognising Scotland in Europe
Smith, Liz Con Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

I would like to focus my comments on my experience as a former member of the corporate body. However, first, let me apologise to the carers who are in the Parliament today with whom I was due to have a meeting at quarter to 2, which I had to cancel.

As Willie Rennie said in the chamber yesterday evening, those of us who are committed Europeans and who voted remain in 2016 would far rather that the EU flag was still one of the three principal flags that are flown outside the Parliament building, the others being the Scottish and UK flags. However, we lost that argument and, for all the reasons that have been rehearsed in the chamber so many times in recent months, as democrats, we accept that the UK voted to leave the EU. Indeed, it is now a fact that we will shortly leave the EU—that is important in relation to the decision that has already been made by the corporate body.

I remind members that, as is set out in the Parliament’s standing orders, the corporate body has a very specific role, which is entirely different from those of other bodies in the Parliament. It is there to make decisions on a wide range of issues that relate to the management of this place—whether they concern budgets, staffing, accommodation or the use and security of parliamentary resources and facilities—and it carries with it significant responsibilities that are reflected in the duties of its elected members.

Corporate body members do not sit to make political decisions. Instead, they are elected by the whole Parliament—usually, but not necessarily, drawn from each of the political groups that are represented in it—to make impartial decisions that are for the collective benefit of all of us in the Parliament. On that basis, the corporate body has impartial relationships with other parliamentary bodies, such as the Parliamentary Bureau and the Conveners Group, which have responsibility for the day-to-day political business of the Parliament.

Corporate body members frequently deal with complex and sensitive issues, including situations in which national security issues come into play, and they can often be party to private and confidential information that is not always available to other members of Parliament. As a result, members will appreciate that it is vital that there is full trust and confidence that, in its work, the corporate body will act impartially on behalf of all members rather than on behalf of the political parties that are represented in the Parliament.

Of particular importance here are the terms of section 21 of the Scotland Act 1998, subsection (3) of which states:

“The corporation shall provide the Parliament, or ensure that the Parliament is provided, with the property, staff and services required for the Parliament’s purposes.”

Subsection(4) states:

“The Parliament may give special or general directions to the corporation for the purpose of or in connection with the exercise of the corporation’s functions.”

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
Good afternoon, everyone. The first item of business is a debate on motion S5M-20625, in the name of Fiona Hyslop, on recognising Scotland in Europe.
The Cabinet Secretary for Culture, Tourism and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop) SNP
This debate is a direct consequence of Scotland being removed from the European Union against the clear majority view expressed by the people of Scotland in ...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Fiona Hyslop SNP
No, I am not giving way. The Parliament has, in the past, flown different flags in solidarity with different peoples at different times. I have lost count o...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Does the cabinet secretary recognise that there are values within this Parliament, some of which are on the mace at the front of the chamber, that are to do ...
Fiona Hyslop SNP
I will cover those points later in my speech. Our simple message to those EU citizens who are living here in Scotland is that we want them to stay. Scotland...
Neil Findlay Lab
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I do not know whether the same is true of other parties, but my party has no back-bench speakers in this debate. I wo...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
That is not a valid point of order. Interruption. Mr Findlay, please be quiet. It is not a valid point of order. It is up to the speaker whether to take inte...
Fiona Hyslop SNP
It is worth reflecting on the fact that, regardless of Brexit, the UK will remain a member of the Council of Europe. The European convention on human rights,...
Mike Rumbles (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Can I have some clarification on the motion? I read the motion in the Business Bulletin and it was about giving a dir...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The corporate body is part of this Parliament, and this Parliament is now debating items that are relevant to the corporate body.
Fiona Hyslop SNP
That is the point that I was coming to. Holding this debate to seek to give a direction to the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body is not a step that we h...
Mike Rumbles LD
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I must be a little bit deaf, or maybe I am misunderstanding what the Government has suggested. Did it suggest that th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The content of any speech is up to the cabinet secretary. If she wishes to repeat that point, I am sure that you will hear it clearly if other members in the...
Fiona Hyslop SNP
I have said it a few times now, so I am quite happy for the member to read the Official Report to understand the precedent that I am talking about. It is not...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Excuse me, cabinet secretary. The cabinet secretary is coming to a close. There should be no more interventions.
Fiona Hyslop SNP
The role of the Presiding Officer in reading the mood of parliamentarians across the chamber is key. The Scottish Government has always accepted that the co...
Neil Findlay Lab
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. If the Parliament were to agree to the motion, it would be overturning a decision of the corporate body—I think, for ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
That is not technically a point of order. However, I refer the member to the terms of the Scotland Act 1998. If he feels very strongly about such matters, he...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I would like to focus my comments on my experience as a former member of the corporate body. However, first, let me apologise to the carers who are in the Pa...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Liz Smith has made important points. However, the critical and fundamental one is that the architecture of these institutions was put together with great car...
Liz Smith Con
I absolutely agree with Daniel Johnson. The issue is one of collective responsibility, which is exactly the basis on which the recent decision about the Euro...
Fiona Hyslop SNP
Having seen it at first hand, I genuinely believe in the importance of consensus in the role of the corporate body. However, in a highly political situation ...
Liz Smith Con
I completely disagree. I am not wrong: the corporate body’s decision was not overturned in the case of the Calman commission. The SPCB was given an advisory ...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
The debate is unfortunate. First, it is a fact that we are leaving the EU, which is a decision that I regret but is now unavoidable. Secondly, there is an at...
Jenny Gilruth (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Claire Baker Lab
Yes, although I am very short on time.
Jenny Gilruth SNP
When a former Labour MSP lodged a motion on the subject, proud Europeans such as our colleague David Stewart and Alex Cole-Hamilton were able to support that...
Claire Baker Lab
I am aware of the motion that was previously lodged and I understand that members have a range of views across the Parliament, but the corporate body is elec...