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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 14 January 2020

14 Jan 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Improving the Lives of Gypsy Travellers
MacGregor, Fulton SNP Coatbridge and Chryston Watch on SPTV

As has been the case with other members, it gives me great pleasure to speak in this afternoon’s debate on Scotland’s Gypsy Travellers. I welcome the publication by the Scottish Government and COSLA of their joint plan, which seeks to improve the living standards of Gypsy Traveller communities as well as highlight the contributions that they have made to our country, many of which have already been talked about in the debate. I take the opportunity to remind the chamber that I am a member of the Equalities and Human Rights Committee and convener of the cross-party group in the Scottish Parliament on racial equality.

When we speak about Gypsy Travellers in Scotland, we are speaking about a diverse group of communities with different cultures, languages and traditions, whose recorded presence in Scotland, as Alex Cole-Hamilton told us, stretches back nearly 1,000 years. However, despite the fact that we have lived alongside such communities in Scotland for so long, they face discrimination, prejudice and lower standards of living compared with others who live here in Scotland. In this chamber last year, many members lamented the fact that prejudice against Gypsy Travellers is arguably the final acceptable form of racism in Scotland today. We have heard that point echoed in other speeches this afternoon.

Just over three years ago, the Scottish Government commissioned research into prejudices across our society that found that roughly one in three of those who were surveyed—I know that some of these points have already been made in the debate, but I think that they are worth repeating—said that they would not be comfortable if a close relative was in a relationship with a Gypsy Traveller. Similar attitudes were displayed towards Travellers and Gypsies being primary school teachers. The survey consistently identified Gypsy Travellers as being among the people in Scottish society who faced the most prejudice.

When we examine the metrics that are used to measure a happy and fulfilled life, we find that Gypsy Travellers are worse off than any other community in Scotland—that point was well made by Mary Fee, who I know has done tremendous work in this area. The high levels of poverty that are experienced by Gypsy Travellers are linked to poor health and a lack of employment opportunities. There is no place in Scotland for the discrimination that our Gypsy Traveller communities face, which is why it is important that the joint plan that has been formulated is now actioned.

In her opening speech, Christina McKelvie set us the challenge of condemning the UK Government’s actions, and I am happy to do that. People might think that Gypsy Traveller communities would be able to look to their Government, in Scotland and in the UK, for support, but as we have already heard, in the case of the UK Government, they would be wrong.

Last November, the UK Home Secretary commented on the Tory manifesto and how it sets out plans to give police more powers to

“arrest and seize the property and vehicles of trespassers who set up unauthorised encampments, in order to protect our communities.”

That might look like a legal measure, but we can all read between the lines—in the context, it is part of a long history of criminalisation of and discrimination against Travellers. The proposed laws would allow police to seize the homes of Gypsy Traveller people by force, and to destroy their property without compensation. I am sure that we are all aware that the people of Scotland voted against that manifesto by a significant margin.

That the Scottish Government’s approach is more compassionate than that of its Westminster counterpart is demonstrated by the plan that it has published with COSLA. It is a five-point plan that seeks to address issues that Gypsy Travellers face by educating them on their rights; protecting their accommodation spaces; tackling discrimination against their communities; strengthening their community development and engagement; and ensuring that their household income reaches its full potential.

The action plan has not been developed prescriptively; rather, the Government and COSLA have actively worked with the communities involved to develop it. We in the chamber must acknowledge the contributions of the community members and activists who have worked tirelessly in collaborating to develop the plan. Other members have mentioned a few names already.

The plan will have financial backing of £3 million. The vast majority of those funds will be used to upgrade and improve the living standards of people who are based on public sites. The rest of the funds will be invested in education, social services and general support for Gypsy Traveller communities.

The plan is set to be delivered over the next two years. To ensure accountability and updates on progress, biannual updates will be provided, which will seek to maintain grass-roots community engagement with the plan.

The publication of the plan is a positive step forward, and it is another great example of what the Scottish Government, COSLA and other public and third sector bodies have been doing to tackle the issue. Last June, we had a successful Gypsy, Roma and Traveller history month. Last September, the Scottish Government announced a shared commitment to work with Police Scotland to challenge discrimination and promote equality for Gypsy Travellers. As Annie Wells has mentioned, debates were held in the chamber in which there was broad political consensus across all parties to work together to improve the lives of Scotland’s Gypsy Travellers.

As I usually do in debates, I want to talk briefly about the local situation in my constituency or, more broadly, in North Lanarkshire. When I spoke in last year’s debate on the issue, there was no provision for Traveller sites in North Lanarkshire, although I noted that the council had a housing needs assessment under way to determine the need for provision. Today, I read the council’s strategic housing investment plan for 2020-21 to 2024-25. There are no planned housing investment projects for Gypsy Travellers and no evidence that there is a need for a permanent site. I am a bit surprised about that, but I can ask the council for further clarification, because I think that that is disappointing.

However, it is positive that a strategic corporate Gypsy Traveller liaison group has been established to consider the accommodation needs and aspirations of Gypsy Travellers. It will help to ensure that services are supportive of the cultural needs and preferences of that population group and that there is alignment with the new national action plan for Gypsy Travellers. The group will continue to review the evidence and data to help to inform future provision of housing and other services.

Therefore, there is evidence that the national plan is being implemented locally in my area—albeit maybe not quite to the extent that I would like it to be—and I will write to the council to seek an update from the strategic group and to ask it to do more.

In essence, the debate is about an issue that we have all discussed previously in the chamber—that of building a better Scotland. Improving the lives of marginalised groups such as Gypsy Traveller communities is a commitment that the Parliament and the Scottish Government take seriously. The UK Government’s dismissive, cold attitude is something that we should never seek to replicate up here.

I ask members to support the motion.

15:24  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-20404, in the name of Christina McKelvie, on improving the lives of Gypsy Travellers. Members who wish to...
The Minister for Older People and Equalities (Christina McKelvie) SNP
The Presiding Officer has given me a promotion.
The Presiding Officer NPA
I apologise. I meant to say “the minister”. 14:25
The Minister for Older People and Equalities (Christina McKelvie) SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I am delighted to bring the motion to the chamber for debate. This is an important opportunity for members of all parties to co...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
I am grateful to the minister for taking an intervention. I am delighted to hear her use the words “home” and “accommodation”. Does she agree that that is ve...
Christina McKelvie SNP
I am pleased, and members will hear much more about the change in language. We identified that we needed to ask whether our policy demonstrated, in its langu...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am grateful to the minister for taking an intervention on that. The minister will be aware that each local authority has a Gypsy Traveller liaison officer....
Christina McKelvie SNP
Absolutely. We have already been working with the Gypsy Traveller liaison officers in order that they can feed into and be an integral part of the process. T...
Mary Fee Lab
That would be helpful.
Christina McKelvie SNP
I will be happy to update Mary Fee as soon as I can. Alongside the local leaders network, the Scottish Government will work with the Gypsy Traveller communi...
Annie Wells (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I thank the Scottish Government for bringing forward this important and timely debate on Gypsy Travellers and how we can support them. I commend Christina Mc...
John Finnie Green
The member mentioned the nomadic lifestyle, which is not just within the boundaries of Scotland but outwith them. I hope that the member will mention the con...
Annie Wells Con
I will reflect on what the minister said and write to her with my views on that. Regardless of their language, customs or everyday way of life, every group ...
The Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning (Kevin Stewart) SNP
I am glad that Ms Wells says that none of us wants any attack on the Gypsy Traveller community. However, I am concerned about the fact that racism is often e...
Annie Wells Con
I make the commitment today that any form of racism or discrimination would not be tolerated by the Scottish Conservatives. The impact of on-going discrimin...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
As a long-term advocate for Gypsy Travellers, I am delighted that such an important debate is taking place. In opening for Scottish Labour, I thank the Scott...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call John Finnie to open the debate for the Scottish Green Party. 15:00
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
I join other members in thanking the Scottish Government for bringing the debate to the chamber, and the minister for her opening speech. Indeed, I thank bot...
Kevin Stewart SNP
I will intervene briefly to do so. I say to Mr Finnie that Mr Russell is regularly on at me about the situation in Argyll and Bute. Mr Finnie is right to poi...
John Finnie Green
I have been at the minister’s door a few times and I have always had a courteous listening. In relation to the situation that I mentioned, I do not know whet...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
You can have another couple of minutes, if you like.
John Finnie Green
That is very kind of you. People will be aware of the abuse that the Roma community is putting up with across Europe, and the draconian laws that are being ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Alex Cole-Hamilton. You have a generous six, seven or eight minutes. 15:09
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
You are always generous, Presiding Officer. I am very grateful to the Government for bringing its motion to the Parliament today and for the publication of ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. Speeches should be of around six minutes, please, but we have a little time in hand for interventions, if members would like to t...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
As has been the case with other members, it gives me great pleasure to speak in this afternoon’s debate on Scotland’s Gypsy Travellers. I welcome the publica...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank colleagues for their contributions thus far in the debate. It is a topic of great interest and passion to many; that is evident from the speeches tha...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will Jamie Greene give way?
Jamie Greene Con
I will give way in a second; I would like to paint a picture of the landscape first. In 38 per cent of stories, a connection to criminality was made, and 3...
Kevin Stewart SNP
As Mr Finnie has already highlighted, many media outlets have an agenda when it comes to dealing with Gypsy Traveller issues. However, I point out that they ...