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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 14 January 2020

14 Jan 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Improving the Lives of Gypsy Travellers

You are always generous, Presiding Officer.

I am very grateful to the Government for bringing its motion to the Parliament today and for the publication of the joint action plan with COSLA. I, too, welcome my friend Peter Barrett to the gallery.

The last clause of the motion before us speaks to the history of Gypsies and Travellers in our country, and it is a proud history, which began in an atmosphere of co-existence and mutual respect. Their story in these islands is 1,000 years in the making, as we have already heard. They first appear in recorded history in Scotland as early as 1505, during the reign of James IV, when the king paid tribute and offered a gift to the king—as he described it—of the Romanies. In 1530, a group of Romanies danced for King James V just across the road at Holyrood palace, and a Romany herbalist called Baptista cured him of an ailment. Romany migration to Scotland continued during the 16th century, and we gave safe harbour to several groups who were accepted here after being expelled from England.

However, the standing of Gypsy Travellers in Scotland has diminished over the centuries, to the point where they now represent an afterthought in public policy and are unfairly considered a nuisance by communities and their representatives. It is no overstatement to describe their treatment, as Mary Fee has already done, as the last form of acceptable racism in Scotland.

Shamus McPhee—who has made several presentations to the Equalities and Human Rights Committee, of which I am very proud to be deputy convener—is an activist and historian for Gypsy Travellers in Scotland. He summed up that reality eloquently when he said:

“Gypsy Travellers are largely absent from history or misrepresented and mythologised in our culture and folklore—often in the crudest and most damaging of ways. Their story is often untold or misunderstood, reinforcing their marginalisation in society with denial of identity, visibility and respect.”

The action plan speaks to much of the challenge that Shamus laid out, and I welcome it for that.

There are indeed large gaps in public knowledge regarding the cultural identity of Gypsy Traveller communities, which has served to deepen the prejudice and further ostracise them from wider society, due in part to a misrepresentation of their cultural practices. Again, that is why the action plan matters.

Improving the lives of Gypsy Travellers should matter to us all. They have ethnic minority status under UK law and are specifically mentioned in equalities legislation. As such, they have a right to be protected from all forms of racial aggravation.

Yet equality seems more out of reach for those communities than ever before. Indeed, Davie Donaldson, who has already been quoted several times in the debate and who is himself a Traveller and a passionate advocate for the rights of Gypsy Travellers, said of the general election that has just passed:

“This is the worst election I have ever seen in terms of rhetoric towards Gypsy/Traveller people. The division coming out is causing real real worry.”

I think that a big part of that is down to the fact that many Travellers, particularly those who lead a traditional, nomadic lifestyle, are disenfranchised from our political system. It is not that they do not have the vote; it is that they are not necessarily registered to vote or are not there to exercise that right or to avail themselves of the normal aspects of our democracy, such as constituency surgeries and public meetings.

In Scottish politics over the past few decades, Gypsy Traveller communities have been considered problems in our constituencies rather than as stakeholders or voters. When we enfranchised 16-year-olds, there was a demonstrable positive shift in the language that was used about young people in public policy. In this chamber, we need to recognise Gypsy Traveller communities for the stakeholders that they are in our country. They are our constituents. I look forward to hearing the first voices of Gypsy Travellers represented in this chamber, but I feel that we might still be a considerable way from that happening.

We have not properly reflected the voices of Gypsy Travellers until now, and the result is that politicians have never felt the need to appeal for the votes of Gypsy Travellers. We can boil that down to the crudest thing that motivates us as politicians. We are also seldom visited by Gypsy Travellers in constituency surgeries. As such, the issues that those communities face go overlooked time and again, but those issues are manifold. There is a fundamental lack of awareness of the rights to which they are entitled, particularly with regard to housing and access to a home. According to a report that was published in March last year, only one in 10 Gypsy Travellers is aware of the level of site standard that they are entitled to; it is therefore small wonder that 11 of the 27 sites in Scotland fall short on issues of site safety, facilities and security. For example, the Collin site in Dumfries and Galloway missed the bar on seven out of eight standards.

Many issues that affect Gypsy Traveller communities are factors that we would not tolerate for our own constituents. We should all think of those communities as our constituents, even if they are nomadic and move around, because they are citizens of this country who have a fair right to representation. As we have heard many times in the debate, on many sites they face restricted access to modern toilet and kitchen facilities, which has underlying cleanliness and safety issues. In addition, many children’s play areas are not deemed safe by the communities that use them, which in turn hinders child development.

It is not just about housing or the want of a home, though. The Equality Act 2010 protects by law the rights of citizens in Scotland in the workplace and the wider community, a fact that is widely ignored when it comes to Gypsy Travellers. Modern attitudes show the extent of the challenge that prejudicial attitudes can have in terms of creating a level playing field in the workplace. For example, when asked, a full 35 per cent of people in Scotland said that a Gypsy Traveller would be “very” or “fairly” unsuitable as a primary school teacher. This is 2020. I cannot believe that that is an acceptable attitude in modern Scotland. As parliamentarians, we have a duty to challenge that attitude wherever we hear it; it is incumbent on all of us to end the discrimination that proves such a barrier in many aspects of Travellers’ lives.

The absence of a fixed address can also cause, as we have heard, difficulties in enrolling children for school or registering with a GP. Those difficulties mean that access to adequate education or healthcare is still behind what it could or should be in such communities, which plays a part in the demonstrably poorer levels of educational attainment in those communities that we hear about. The list of difficulties goes on and on.

People should never have to feel shame about their cultural identity. However, for all the reasons that I have stated, and which members on all sides of the chamber have so eloquently presented, many people in Gypsy Traveller communities are afraid to identify with their cultures publicly for fear of a judgment that should be consigned to history. The joint plan is a good step towards that goal, and the Liberal Democrats will have no hesitation in supporting it at decision time tonight.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-20404, in the name of Christina McKelvie, on improving the lives of Gypsy Travellers. Members who wish to...
The Minister for Older People and Equalities (Christina McKelvie) SNP
The Presiding Officer has given me a promotion.
The Presiding Officer NPA
I apologise. I meant to say “the minister”. 14:25
The Minister for Older People and Equalities (Christina McKelvie) SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I am delighted to bring the motion to the chamber for debate. This is an important opportunity for members of all parties to co...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
I am grateful to the minister for taking an intervention. I am delighted to hear her use the words “home” and “accommodation”. Does she agree that that is ve...
Christina McKelvie SNP
I am pleased, and members will hear much more about the change in language. We identified that we needed to ask whether our policy demonstrated, in its langu...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am grateful to the minister for taking an intervention on that. The minister will be aware that each local authority has a Gypsy Traveller liaison officer....
Christina McKelvie SNP
Absolutely. We have already been working with the Gypsy Traveller liaison officers in order that they can feed into and be an integral part of the process. T...
Mary Fee Lab
That would be helpful.
Christina McKelvie SNP
I will be happy to update Mary Fee as soon as I can. Alongside the local leaders network, the Scottish Government will work with the Gypsy Traveller communi...
Annie Wells (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I thank the Scottish Government for bringing forward this important and timely debate on Gypsy Travellers and how we can support them. I commend Christina Mc...
John Finnie Green
The member mentioned the nomadic lifestyle, which is not just within the boundaries of Scotland but outwith them. I hope that the member will mention the con...
Annie Wells Con
I will reflect on what the minister said and write to her with my views on that. Regardless of their language, customs or everyday way of life, every group ...
The Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning (Kevin Stewart) SNP
I am glad that Ms Wells says that none of us wants any attack on the Gypsy Traveller community. However, I am concerned about the fact that racism is often e...
Annie Wells Con
I make the commitment today that any form of racism or discrimination would not be tolerated by the Scottish Conservatives. The impact of on-going discrimin...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
As a long-term advocate for Gypsy Travellers, I am delighted that such an important debate is taking place. In opening for Scottish Labour, I thank the Scott...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call John Finnie to open the debate for the Scottish Green Party. 15:00
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
I join other members in thanking the Scottish Government for bringing the debate to the chamber, and the minister for her opening speech. Indeed, I thank bot...
Kevin Stewart SNP
I will intervene briefly to do so. I say to Mr Finnie that Mr Russell is regularly on at me about the situation in Argyll and Bute. Mr Finnie is right to poi...
John Finnie Green
I have been at the minister’s door a few times and I have always had a courteous listening. In relation to the situation that I mentioned, I do not know whet...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
You can have another couple of minutes, if you like.
John Finnie Green
That is very kind of you. People will be aware of the abuse that the Roma community is putting up with across Europe, and the draconian laws that are being ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Alex Cole-Hamilton. You have a generous six, seven or eight minutes. 15:09
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
You are always generous, Presiding Officer. I am very grateful to the Government for bringing its motion to the Parliament today and for the publication of ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. Speeches should be of around six minutes, please, but we have a little time in hand for interventions, if members would like to t...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
As has been the case with other members, it gives me great pleasure to speak in this afternoon’s debate on Scotland’s Gypsy Travellers. I welcome the publica...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank colleagues for their contributions thus far in the debate. It is a topic of great interest and passion to many; that is evident from the speeches tha...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will Jamie Greene give way?
Jamie Greene Con
I will give way in a second; I would like to paint a picture of the landscape first. In 38 per cent of stories, a connection to criminality was made, and 3...
Kevin Stewart SNP
As Mr Finnie has already highlighted, many media outlets have an agenda when it comes to dealing with Gypsy Traveller issues. However, I point out that they ...