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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 14 January 2020

14 Jan 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Improving the Lives of Gypsy Travellers

I thank the Scottish Government for bringing forward this important and timely debate on Gypsy Travellers and how we can support them. I commend Christina McKelvie, Angela Constance and Mary Fee for all the work that they have done in the area. I was pleased to speak in Mary Fee’s members’ business debate in the Parliament in May 2018 and in Angela Constance’s members’ business debate the following month. Since those debates, those MSPs in particular have continued to fight to improve the lives of Gypsy Travellers, and they deserve a great deal of credit for that.

It was way back in 2001 that the first Scottish Parliament committee report on Gypsy Travellers was published. Nearly 20 years on, it is clear that a lot more work still needs to be done, so I welcome the Scottish Government’s latest plans to help the community. In particular, I welcome the COSLA and Scottish Government joint national action plan, which is mentioned in the motion.

As a member of the Equalities and Human Rights Committee, I have seen and heard at first hand the many issues that the Gypsy Traveller community faces. The population of the community in Scotland is approximately between 15,000 and 20,000. As we have heard, and as the evidence shows, for far too many of those people, a great deal of progress is still to be made on housing, education, employment and health.

As the minister set out, the Gypsy Traveller community has lived in Scotland for generation after generation. There is a considerable amount of diversity among Gypsy and Traveller communities in Scotland. From one group to another, the language used might be entirely different and groups of Gypsy Travellers might often have entirely distinct customs and traditions. That can be as simple as some people referring to themselves as Gypsies while others refer to themselves as Travellers. As Amnesty International has identified, Gypsy Travellers are not a uniform group or section of Scottish society. Some continue to live a nomadic lifestyle, whereas many live in conventional homes.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-20404, in the name of Christina McKelvie, on improving the lives of Gypsy Travellers. Members who wish to...
The Minister for Older People and Equalities (Christina McKelvie) SNP
The Presiding Officer has given me a promotion.
The Presiding Officer NPA
I apologise. I meant to say “the minister”. 14:25
The Minister for Older People and Equalities (Christina McKelvie) SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I am delighted to bring the motion to the chamber for debate. This is an important opportunity for members of all parties to co...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
I am grateful to the minister for taking an intervention. I am delighted to hear her use the words “home” and “accommodation”. Does she agree that that is ve...
Christina McKelvie SNP
I am pleased, and members will hear much more about the change in language. We identified that we needed to ask whether our policy demonstrated, in its langu...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am grateful to the minister for taking an intervention on that. The minister will be aware that each local authority has a Gypsy Traveller liaison officer....
Christina McKelvie SNP
Absolutely. We have already been working with the Gypsy Traveller liaison officers in order that they can feed into and be an integral part of the process. T...
Mary Fee Lab
That would be helpful.
Christina McKelvie SNP
I will be happy to update Mary Fee as soon as I can. Alongside the local leaders network, the Scottish Government will work with the Gypsy Traveller communi...
Annie Wells (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I thank the Scottish Government for bringing forward this important and timely debate on Gypsy Travellers and how we can support them. I commend Christina Mc...
John Finnie Green
The member mentioned the nomadic lifestyle, which is not just within the boundaries of Scotland but outwith them. I hope that the member will mention the con...
Annie Wells Con
I will reflect on what the minister said and write to her with my views on that. Regardless of their language, customs or everyday way of life, every group ...
The Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning (Kevin Stewart) SNP
I am glad that Ms Wells says that none of us wants any attack on the Gypsy Traveller community. However, I am concerned about the fact that racism is often e...
Annie Wells Con
I make the commitment today that any form of racism or discrimination would not be tolerated by the Scottish Conservatives. The impact of on-going discrimin...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
As a long-term advocate for Gypsy Travellers, I am delighted that such an important debate is taking place. In opening for Scottish Labour, I thank the Scott...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call John Finnie to open the debate for the Scottish Green Party. 15:00
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
I join other members in thanking the Scottish Government for bringing the debate to the chamber, and the minister for her opening speech. Indeed, I thank bot...
Kevin Stewart SNP
I will intervene briefly to do so. I say to Mr Finnie that Mr Russell is regularly on at me about the situation in Argyll and Bute. Mr Finnie is right to poi...
John Finnie Green
I have been at the minister’s door a few times and I have always had a courteous listening. In relation to the situation that I mentioned, I do not know whet...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
You can have another couple of minutes, if you like.
John Finnie Green
That is very kind of you. People will be aware of the abuse that the Roma community is putting up with across Europe, and the draconian laws that are being ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Alex Cole-Hamilton. You have a generous six, seven or eight minutes. 15:09
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
You are always generous, Presiding Officer. I am very grateful to the Government for bringing its motion to the Parliament today and for the publication of ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. Speeches should be of around six minutes, please, but we have a little time in hand for interventions, if members would like to t...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
As has been the case with other members, it gives me great pleasure to speak in this afternoon’s debate on Scotland’s Gypsy Travellers. I welcome the publica...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank colleagues for their contributions thus far in the debate. It is a topic of great interest and passion to many; that is evident from the speeches tha...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will Jamie Greene give way?
Jamie Greene Con
I will give way in a second; I would like to paint a picture of the landscape first. In 38 per cent of stories, a connection to criminality was made, and 3...
Kevin Stewart SNP
As Mr Finnie has already highlighted, many media outlets have an agenda when it comes to dealing with Gypsy Traveller issues. However, I point out that they ...