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Committee

Public Petitions Committee 19 December 2019

19 Dec 2019 · S5 · Public Petitions Committee
Item of business
Continued Petitions
Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (Treatment) (PE1690)
Freeman, Jeane SNP Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley Watch on SPTV
Thank you for that, convener. Your questions are important for those who are suffering from ME, and it is important for our wider clinical community to hear and understand my answers. I completely understand the frustration that people feel about what they perceive to be a lack of urgency and pace in this work. The core reason behind that is partly what the CMO has already said and what I have said. As the committee knows, we need to move with pace on the basis of the data and the evidence that we gather. That is why the work that we have commissioned is so important, a significant amount of which we will have in the early part of 2020. The short-life group will have the data that the CMO has outlined so that it can begin to look at what good-quality care is. I said at the outset that people who are suffering from ME have as much right as anyone else to consistent, high-quality care across the country. The piece of work that the Scottish Health Council is undertaking to understand what good looks like will be really important in mapping out what the right patient pathway would be for diagnosis, potential treatment and support. In parallel with that is the work with the clinical community that NES is leading, so that people’s understanding and awareness of ME as a neurological condition—I said this at the start and I want to repeat it—is well understood. All of that is taking place in the context of our plan and the framework for action. It is important that the ME community knows that it has been involved in the construction of the plan, along with other stakeholders, and that it knows that we are very clear that ME is a neurological condition. If we have boards that believe that ME is a historical matter and that the world has moved on, we need to correct their understanding. We also need to ensure, through undergraduate and postgraduate training and continuing professional development, that our clinical community is aware and has a degree of understanding of how to distinguish between different neurological conditions in diagnosis, and that a consistent pathway is delivered across the country to provide the support that people need and are looking for. All of that is the end goal. To get there, we need to have the better data that we are currently trying to gather in order to map out the necessary steps. 09:15 We have said that the GET and CBT treatments are controversial treatments that certainly do not work for everyone; I completely understand that. It should not be the case that they are expected to be helpful and effective for everyone with a diagnosis of ME. I say again—we need to make sure that our clinicians understand this—that patients should be the drivers of decisions about the treatment that they are given or are prepared to undertake. When patients say, “This not only does not work for me but is positively unhelpful to me,” clinicians’ responsibility is to have that conversation and to see what else might be helpful, which might go beyond their immediate role to that of a wider multidisciplinary team. That is part of the work that we need to undertake.

In the same item of business

The Convener (Johann Lamont) Lab
I welcome everyone to the 22nd meeting of the Public Petitions Committee in 2019. The first and only item on our agenda is consideration of continued petitio...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport (Jeane Freeman) SNP
Thank you, convener, and good morning to you and committee members. As you know, I wrote to the committee in September. The opening statement that I am about...
The Convener Lab
Thank you for your statement. We received a further submission with some questions from the petitioner. I think that you have a copy of it. If we do not mana...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Given that the chief medical officer was involved in that, I am happy to ask her to respond.
Dr Catherine Calderwood (Scottish Government)
I met Professor Chris Ponting, who has a long interest in research on ME, and officials from the chief scientist office and Action for ME. We had a very help...
Gail Ross (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) SNP
Cabinet secretary, you mentioned in your submission and your opening statement that the Scottish Government continues to liaise with NES to explore opportuni...
Jeane Freeman SNP
NES has a practice-based small group learning membership that includes general practitioners. That group has prioritised ME as a module for NES to produce in...
Gail Ross SNP
On continuing professional development of our medical staff, I was concerned that NHS Forth Valley said in its response that it sees the diagnosis of ME as a...
Jeane Freeman SNP
That is not uncommon, to an extent, with neurological conditions. Yesterday, I had a discussion with some of our clinical advisers and colleagues on attentio...
Gail Ross SNP
But if the health board as a whole is not even recognising a diagnosis of ME, we are not talking about misdiagnosis; the board is simply refusing to diagnose...
Jeane Freeman SNP
I understand what you are saying. In publishing the framework for action, we want to raise the issue directly with all those who have been involved through o...
Maurice Corry (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I note the comments that you made in your opening statement, cabinet secretary. The committee understands that you have spoken to many stakeholders from the ...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Part of the reason for commissioning the pieces of work by the Scottish Health Council and the Scottish public health network that I referred to towards the ...
Maurice Corry Con
That will help to address NHS Forth Valley’s comments. Thank you—I am happy with that.
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
In January, the chief medical officer told the committee that the Scottish Government was creating a working group to look at the provision of services. You ...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Part of what the short-life working group will have to work with are the two pieces of work that I have commissioned, which will provide it with evidence on ...
Dr Calderwood
There will be some frustration about the delay, but we are starting from a baseline of very little data. We want to know about the number of people who have ...
Brian Whittle Con
Cabinet secretary, you mentioned in your opening statement the two pieces of work that the Scottish Government has commissioned. Forgive me if I missed this,...
Jeane Freeman SNP
You are referring to the updated needs assessment by the Scottish public health network and the Scottish Health Council’s work on what good care and support ...
Brian Whittle Con
What has the Scottish Government done to ensure that the ME community is kept up to date with the timescale and the developments that are in progress?
Jeane Freeman SNP
A number of meetings have taken place between my officials and stakeholders in the ME community, including the petitioner. We will continue that process of k...
The Convener Lab
I will reflect on some of the comments that have been made to us in submissions. In one anonymous submission, a person said that they did not feel there was ...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Thank you for that, convener. Your questions are important for those who are suffering from ME, and it is important for our wider clinical community to hear ...
The Convener Lab
In its submission, NHS Lothian resists the critique of the PACE trial that has been provided by the ME community. The argument is that something should be bu...
Dr Calderwood
Yes, I agree that we will need to look at that carefully. We could write to the committee. I can ask Chris Ponting and others to help me to look at the PACE ...
The Convener Lab
Thank you very much for responding to our questions. We will have to reflect on what we have heard. If there are points on which you want to respond further,...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Before you do that, convener, I would like to say that we will answer all the questions that the petitioner submitted on 17 December, and we will copy you in...
The Convener Lab
Thank you. I appreciate that. 09:20 Meeting suspended. 09:23 On resuming—