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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 19 December 2019

19 Dec 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Referendums (Scotland) Bill

I want to do two things in the time that we have available for today’s important debate. Before I do that, I note that I am disappointed in the boorish and rude language that we have heard from some members this afternoon. It is unbecoming.

I want to look at the principled, entirely reasonable and well-supported case for having referendums framework legislation on the statute book. I also want to spend just a short time exploring the wider matter of Scotland’s undeniable democratic right to choose her own future.

Although I do not speak today as the convener of the Finance and Constitution Committee, I put on record my grateful thanks for the fantastic support that I have received from the committee clerks throughout the passage of the bill.

I move on to why all parties in the chamber should support the bill at decision time. The policy objective of the bill is to put in place a generic framework for referendums and provide the technical arrangements for any specific future referendums. It is safe to say that the policy objective found almost total support from electoral professionals and across academia.

For instance, the Electoral Commission’s view was that the bill

“would help to provide clarity of the rules for anyone administering or campaigning at a particular referendum.”

The Scottish Assessors Association welcomed the bill on the basis that

“there will be one set of legislation to govern all referendums in Scotland.”—[Official Report, Finance and Constitution Committee, 18 September 2019; c 2.]

The view of the Electoral Management Board for Scotland was that

“Rationalising existing laws to create a single, consistent framework governing referendums offers many benefits to the voter, to campaigners, the regulator and electoral administrators”.

It saw the bill proposals as a “wholly positive policy direction.”

The Institute for Government said that the overall policy objective was a “good one” and that

“standing legislation is preferable for the purposes of consistency and to prevent manipulation of the rules”.

Dr Alan Renwick of University College London’s constitution unit “strongly welcomed” the proposals for a standing legislative framework. Among others who provided supportive comments were Dr Theresa Reidy and Professor Toby James.

Therefore, those of us in the chamber who are genuinely interested in following an evidence-led path when placing legislation on the statute book should support the bill when we come to decision time this evening.

I conclude with a short comment on the result of last week’s general election, and the vital importance of recognising and implementing the outcome of the democratic process. In doing so, I recognise the achievement of the Conservatives in winning a majority. I may despair at the outcome, but respect and face that reality I must. However, so, too, must the Tory party in Scotland respect and face the reality of the outcome of the election in Scotland. Yes, the election was a victory for one-nation conservatism, but that one nation was England. Scotland chose a different path and her democratic wishes must be respected.

If, on a vote share of 43.6 per cent and seat share of 56.1 per cent, the Conservatives claim a democratic mandate for the UK to leave the EU, how can any argument stand against the democratic legitimacy of the outcome in Scotland, where the SNP share of the vote was 45 per cent and seat share was an emphatic 81 per cent?

I say in all seriousness to the Tories that the democratic voice of Scotland will be respected and the people of Scotland will choose their own future.

16:03  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-20237, in the name of Michael Russell, on the Referendums (Scotland) Bill at stage 3.
The Cabinet Secretary for Government Business and Constitutional Relations (Michael Russell) SNP
I thank all those who have been involved in shaping and developing the bill over the past few months. I am very grateful to the bill team, which has done a t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Excuse me, cabinet secretary. I say to all members that Parliament has resumed, so no private conversations should be going on and no backs should be turned ...
Michael Russell SNP
It is perfectly possible to shape and develop a bill in a way that makes it better. That has happened in the case of this bill, and I am grateful to each mem...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I believe that the cabinet secretary has said that there are no plans to have any referendum other than one on Scotland’s constitutional future. I accept the...
Michael Russell SNP
I will address that question in two ways. First, the bill does not create a Scottish independence referendum—no ifs, no buts. It puts in place a framework, w...
Neil Findlay Lab
Will the cabinet secretary make it clear that the only reason he foresees using the legislation is for an independence referendum?
Michael Russell SNP
I have never said that. In fact, I gave evidence to the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee, which Mr Simpson convenes, on other areas in which I thoug...
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
We all know the reality, Presiding Officer. This was not intended, and never was intended, by the Scottish National Party to be a framework bill for all refe...
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP
Does Adam Tomkins not agree that people can change their mind, as Jackson Carlaw did on his position regarding Brexit?
Adam Tomkins Con
I take the First Minister at her word. I would have thought that, as a very loyal servant of the First Minister, the member would do the same. The First Mini...
Patrick Harvie Green
Will the member give way?
Adam Tomkins Con
I will happily give way to Mr Harvie in one minute. If we are really to have a legislative framework for referendums, we surely need to have some grasp of w...
Patrick Harvie Green
Those are important questions, but would it not be regrettable if we were to pass framework legislation that took a restrictive view? For example, the bill a...
Adam Tomkins Con
That is right. There is a degree of flexibility about that. However, it does not address the critical question, which, as Michael Russell said in his opening...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Come to a close, please.
Adam Tomkins Con
—which was delivered by Her Majesty from the throne in the House of Lords this afternoon, made it perfectly clear that this people’s Government will not allo...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
In opening the debate for Scottish Labour at stage 1, I said that “If we, as a country, were to want to move to a more direct democracy in which referendums...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in favour of the bill, which I do confident in the knowledge that pretty much no serious evidence was submitted...
Mike Rumbles (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
MSPs from all across the chamber should be here to speak in support of a non-controversial technical bill to manage the detail of referendums that might take...
Patrick Harvie Green
Will the member take an intervention?
Mike Rumbles LD
I am afraid that I have only four minutes. Patrick Harvie complained earlier about my use of the phrase “mask of nationalism”, but it is an apt phrase. Mr H...
Patrick Harvie Green
Will the member give way?
Mike Rumbles LD
Because I have more time, I will give way.
Patrick Harvie Green
I say, with the best will in the world, that I would not call Mike Rumbles a British nationalist, and he would not thank me if I did. Would he please pay the...
Mike Rumbles LD
No, because that is exactly what the Green Party is—a nationalist party. It is amazing that it pretends that it is not a nationalist party. The Scottish Gov...
Bruce Crawford (Stirling) (SNP) SNP
I want to do two things in the time that we have available for today’s important debate. Before I do that, I note that I am disappointed in the boorish and r...
Alexander Burnett (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Con
We could have been spending the last moments of this year in Parliament debating something that is important to the majority of people in Scotland. We could ...
Bruce Crawford SNP
Can Alexander Burnett give us an example of where the committee failed in the parliamentary scrutiny process or, indeed, where extra time should have been bu...
Alexander Burnett Con
I think that we would all have wanted more time for the Electoral Commission to give its agreement to the bill. That is one example, and it is very sad that ...