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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 13 November 2019

13 Nov 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Artificial Intelligence and Data-Driven Technologies

When we think of artificial intelligence, we often think of synthetic life forms, such as the character Data from “Star Trek” or the Terminator, but in 2019, artificial intelligence, albeit in some ways still in its infancy, is continuing to grow and show us its potential to transform lives.

I will focus my contribution mainly on healthcare, because AI presents vast opportunities for healthcare across the globe, which I am particularly interested in as I was an operating room nurse for more than 30 years. AI is beginning to have an ever-more-significant presence in our worldwide healthcare systems—the minister has already mentioned out-of-hospital cardiac arrests. Researchers, doctors and scientists input data into computers, and the newly built algorithms can then review, interpret and even suggest solutions to complex medical problems. That reduces the human time that is spent translating data from such things as X-rays, imaging studies, magnetic resonance imaging and computerised tomography scans into results for clinicians to interpret as well as into language that is accessible for non-medical members of the public.

At the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, researchers have created gyroscopically actuated robot limbs that are capable of tracking their own position in three-dimensional space and adjusting their joints 750 times per second. In addition, they have developed bionic skins and neural implant systems that interface with the nervous system to allow the user to receive tactile feedback from the prosthetic limb.

When I worked in the operating room at Cedars-Sinai hospital in the United States, we used two surgical robots—da Vinci and AESOP—that were designed to facilitate surgery using a minimally invasive approach. That reduces post-op pain and leads to earlier discharge. Da Vinci was controlled by a surgeon from a console—they did not even need to be in the operating room. The systems tend to be used for prostatectomies and, increasingly, for cardiac valve repair and gynaecology surgeries. They are even now assisting with lumbar decompression and renal procedures.

There is a viral video of a da Vinci robot performing surgery on a grape, which is well worth a Google. With those robotic surgical systems, the surgeon does not necessarily need to be in the same location as the patient; the surgeon could be here in Edinburgh, and the patient could be at the Antarctic, or even on the international space station. It is all very sci-fi, and I absolutely love it.

The world’s population is rapidly increasing. Globally, the population is living longer, with more complicated and acute healthcare conditions, and more support is needed for people as they grow older. We want folk to age well, which means that a larger healthcare and caring workforce is required, and AI can help there, too.

Kenneth Gibson mentioned that Japanese developers have created robot companions that can interact with people. Other humanoid robots, such as the Care-O-bot and Pepper, are able to provide more complex and comprehensive care. Although robot pets obviously offer limited interaction, they have proved just as effective as real pets in reducing loneliness for elderly people in care homes. Robotic dogs and seals have been found to trigger conversation and social interaction, and to reduce stress and anxiety. Humanoid robots are already advanced enough to provide much-needed care to elderly people. Those robots can pick things up and move independently.

In addition to AI advances, if we are to meet the demands of the future, we need more people working in our NHS, and more people studying medicine and medicine-related degrees. We have seen a sharp increase in the number of people who study STEM subjects; people who are our scientists and inventors of the future. They are the kids who Alex Cole-Hamilton described earlier, when he said that the jobs of the future—which will be done by kids who are in school now—have not even been invented yet. They are the people who will, undoubtedly, be responsible for developing and progressing AI in healthcare.

While I encourage all to be open-minded about the potential of AI, I recognise the need to ensure that any approach to AI is carried out in a way that is underpinned by a proper ethical framework. I welcome continued debate on furthering that, and on any regulations that may be required. Many of those who are critical of AI claim that it will lead to job losses, with robots taking over, and I recognise those concerns. I am pleased that the Scottish Government has committed to investing in our Scottish workforce, ensuring that people the length and breadth of our country—from the Lochans in Dumfries and Galloway to Lerwick in Shetland—have equal access to education and training to gain the skills, knowledge and expertise to be adaptable to the changing employment opportunities of the future.

In the words of Mr Spock from “Star Trek”,

“change is the essential process of all existence”

We must embrace that change if we are to meet the demands of our future healthcare needs. I welcome this debate, and encourage everyone to share their views, especially on issues around promoting an ethical approach to developing AI. I would welcome the minister’s comments on that in her closing speech.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-19822, in the name of Kate Forbes, on artificial intelligence and data-driven technologies: opportunities...
The Minister for Public Finance and Digital Economy (Kate Forbes) SNP
I am pleased to be in the chamber today to debate the topic of artificial intelligence and data-driven technologies and the opportunities that they offer to ...
Elaine Smith (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
We have to be careful to be clear that not all the fears are unwarranted.
Kate Forbes SNP
Absolutely. I do not disagree with that, nor would I say that all the hype is unwarranted either. That is why in the debate and in the strategy we are trying...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I agree that there are clearly economic opportunities, but to take them our people need to have the right skills. In that regard, can the minister comment on...
Kate Forbes SNP
Daniel Johnson is right to identify the need for skills in that area, but it goes much further than that. Although we need people to have the skills to be ab...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
On the argument about the increasing capabilities that we will have if we share data in a smart way—whether in Government and public services or in the priva...
Kate Forbes SNP
There are two answers to that, neither of which is simple or straightforward. The first is about raising awareness and having a genuine discussion about what...
Finlay Carson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Con
Did the principles that the minister is outlining play a role in producing the new social services database and future Government information systems?
Kate Forbes SNP
Yes—very much so. A key plank in the development of Government policy in that area has been data and our discussions about the ethical elements, as well as t...
Dean Lockhart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Today’s debate on artificial intelligence and data-driven technologies is important. At decision time, we will support the Scottish Government motion. We ha...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I very much agree with what Dean Lockhart is saying, but does he also recognise that it is important to get a representative set of people and occurrences fo...
Dean Lockhart Con
Stewart Stevenson makes a very good point. The outcome of predictive measurement is only as good as the underlying data. Machine learning can help to improve...
Patrick Harvie Green
I welcome the fact that the UK Government is at least exploring the ethical dimensions of the issue. Does the member feel comfortable with its current positi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
I can allow you to speak for up to eight and a half minutes, Mr Lockhart.
Dean Lockhart Con
Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. The point is that regulation of AI has to be done on a multilateral, multinational basis. The UK Government is talki...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
Although the debate is likely to be interesting, it is yet another on one section of the Scottish economy. Developments such as AI do not happen in a vacuum;...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I welcome the fact that the debate has been brought to the chamber. Politics can be very short term. Perhaps especially during an election campaign, we are a...
Kate Forbes SNP
What does Patrick Harvie think of the international dimensions to development of such a framework? Many of the biggest tech companies are not based here, so ...
Patrick Harvie Green
The location of the tech companies is only one of the problems. The fact that some of them appear to be run by sociopathic billionaires is a much deeper prob...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I am grateful to the minister for securing time for the debate. I am not convinced that any of us understand the full magnitude of the changes that Al and da...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We now move to the open debate, with speeches of six minutes, please. 15:26
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to be able to speak about such a fascinating topic once again, having led a members’ business debate early last year on artificial intelligence....
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
The potential and indeed current effects that artificial intelligence and its attendant advantages will have on the economy have been well documented and ext...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
When we think of artificial intelligence, we often think of synthetic life forms, such as the character Data from “Star Trek” or the Terminator, but in 2019,...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Everyone has been very disciplined, so I have a little bit of time in hand. If anybody wishes to intervene, and the intervention is accepted, I can make the ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Thank you for making that invitation, Presiding Officer. I welcome these debates for no less a reason than the one that Emma Harper just demonstrated: they ...
Emma Harper SNP
I have a question about reskilling and undergraduates. Does Daniel Johnson recognise that the Scottish Government has the Scottish graduate entry medicine pr...
Daniel Johnson Lab
That is a good example of facilitating reskilling, but it is one very small example. We need to embrace the fact that many people across multiple disciplines...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
When I graduated from computer science—some time ago, it has to be said—computers of any significance were the size of a big room, and programmes were keyed ...