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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 13 November 2019

13 Nov 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Artificial Intelligence and Data-Driven Technologies

The potential and indeed current effects that artificial intelligence and its attendant advantages will have on the economy have been well documented and extensively considered.

The problem that we face in Scotland is that, although we have exceptional infrastructure for a great many things, as Robin Watson said just last week at the business in Parliament conference in this chamber, it was suitable a century ago. My Conservative colleague Alan Mak MP highlighted that the so-called fourth industrial revolution has the potential to add £630 billion to the UK economy by 2035.

However, that comes with a significant caveat: the considerable restructuring of an economy such as Scotland’s needs to be carried out in such a way that the 15 million jobs that the Bank of England has said may be vulnerable to the proliferation of Al are repositioned to make full use of its advantages. We cannot allow the interface of Al and data-driven technologies to become an enemy of a great swathe of our employment market.

Throughout the centuries, the United Kingdom has been at the forefront of adoption and has enhanced our economy as technologies and techniques have been invented and adapted. New developments do not have to affect people and economies negatively, although I accept that no Government has ever managed to get everything right all of the time.

In the 18th century, we saw the start of the extension of the right to vote to working people, and simultaneously embraced the leaps and bounds of steam power, assembly production and mechanisation in improving the lives and outcomes for working people.

We need to work on a cross-party basis, to ensure that reasonable scepticism about change to our economy does not prevent us from seizing with both hands new opportunities for innovation and progress.

Others have already mentioned the contributions of universities in Scotland, such as Heriot-Watt here in the Lothian region. Following their example, we should not think of the advance of Al as the enemy of employment but should work to ensure that it helps us to enable employment and the advancement of the improvements that we seek in the lives of the people of Scotland.

Data-driven technology can do much to help Scotland on its way towards, for example, a decarbonised and increasingly efficient energy supply. Marcus Stewart wrote in his report for the National Grid that smart devices and the internet of things have already made vast strides in preventing waste and allowing a more adaptable energy infrastructure across the country.

If the £13 billion of value that has already been referred to by others is to be fully recognised by the Scottish economy, it is of the utmost importance that we address the new challenges that are presented by this technology at every level, educational and professional, and that we recognise that Al and data-based work should not be resisted but embraced. Less well recognised and perhaps less well discussed or understood is the leading role that those technologies will have for consumers. I will again refer to the example of energy production, in which Scotland leads much of Europe in its use of renewables. Al and data will play leading roles in driving down the cost of energy for working people.

The interaction between Al, data and other subsets of technology with our traditional economy is only set to expand further in the years to come. I therefore welcome the UK Government’s commitment to bring forward a national retraining scheme with an initial commitment of £100 million, which was announced in last year’s budget.

We can move forward with Al and technology in a positive and constructive way, and Scotland can play a leading role if we get it right. We must resist Luddite tendencies, while continuing to eat our lentils, neeps and tatties, but we must move forward with AI and the new technology that we have.

15:37  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-19822, in the name of Kate Forbes, on artificial intelligence and data-driven technologies: opportunities...
The Minister for Public Finance and Digital Economy (Kate Forbes) SNP
I am pleased to be in the chamber today to debate the topic of artificial intelligence and data-driven technologies and the opportunities that they offer to ...
Elaine Smith (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
We have to be careful to be clear that not all the fears are unwarranted.
Kate Forbes SNP
Absolutely. I do not disagree with that, nor would I say that all the hype is unwarranted either. That is why in the debate and in the strategy we are trying...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I agree that there are clearly economic opportunities, but to take them our people need to have the right skills. In that regard, can the minister comment on...
Kate Forbes SNP
Daniel Johnson is right to identify the need for skills in that area, but it goes much further than that. Although we need people to have the skills to be ab...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
On the argument about the increasing capabilities that we will have if we share data in a smart way—whether in Government and public services or in the priva...
Kate Forbes SNP
There are two answers to that, neither of which is simple or straightforward. The first is about raising awareness and having a genuine discussion about what...
Finlay Carson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Con
Did the principles that the minister is outlining play a role in producing the new social services database and future Government information systems?
Kate Forbes SNP
Yes—very much so. A key plank in the development of Government policy in that area has been data and our discussions about the ethical elements, as well as t...
Dean Lockhart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Today’s debate on artificial intelligence and data-driven technologies is important. At decision time, we will support the Scottish Government motion. We ha...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I very much agree with what Dean Lockhart is saying, but does he also recognise that it is important to get a representative set of people and occurrences fo...
Dean Lockhart Con
Stewart Stevenson makes a very good point. The outcome of predictive measurement is only as good as the underlying data. Machine learning can help to improve...
Patrick Harvie Green
I welcome the fact that the UK Government is at least exploring the ethical dimensions of the issue. Does the member feel comfortable with its current positi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
I can allow you to speak for up to eight and a half minutes, Mr Lockhart.
Dean Lockhart Con
Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. The point is that regulation of AI has to be done on a multilateral, multinational basis. The UK Government is talki...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
Although the debate is likely to be interesting, it is yet another on one section of the Scottish economy. Developments such as AI do not happen in a vacuum;...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I welcome the fact that the debate has been brought to the chamber. Politics can be very short term. Perhaps especially during an election campaign, we are a...
Kate Forbes SNP
What does Patrick Harvie think of the international dimensions to development of such a framework? Many of the biggest tech companies are not based here, so ...
Patrick Harvie Green
The location of the tech companies is only one of the problems. The fact that some of them appear to be run by sociopathic billionaires is a much deeper prob...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I am grateful to the minister for securing time for the debate. I am not convinced that any of us understand the full magnitude of the changes that Al and da...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We now move to the open debate, with speeches of six minutes, please. 15:26
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to be able to speak about such a fascinating topic once again, having led a members’ business debate early last year on artificial intelligence....
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
The potential and indeed current effects that artificial intelligence and its attendant advantages will have on the economy have been well documented and ext...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
When we think of artificial intelligence, we often think of synthetic life forms, such as the character Data from “Star Trek” or the Terminator, but in 2019,...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Everyone has been very disciplined, so I have a little bit of time in hand. If anybody wishes to intervene, and the intervention is accepted, I can make the ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Thank you for making that invitation, Presiding Officer. I welcome these debates for no less a reason than the one that Emma Harper just demonstrated: they ...
Emma Harper SNP
I have a question about reskilling and undergraduates. Does Daniel Johnson recognise that the Scottish Government has the Scottish graduate entry medicine pr...
Daniel Johnson Lab
That is a good example of facilitating reskilling, but it is one very small example. We need to embrace the fact that many people across multiple disciplines...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
When I graduated from computer science—some time ago, it has to be said—computers of any significance were the size of a big room, and programmes were keyed ...