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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 13 November 2019

13 Nov 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Artificial Intelligence and Data-Driven Technologies

I am pleased to be able to speak about such a fascinating topic once again, having led a members’ business debate early last year on artificial intelligence. At that time I spoke about concerns that Al technology

“will destroy jobs and, indeed, entire industries faster than it creates them”,

and, in some sectors, would enable a few companies to have a monopoly over the market by harnessing this new technology. That concern is still very much alive. Japan’s Henn na Hotel is almost entirely run by robots. A law firm in Chicago has an AI legal assistant named Ross who deals with bankruptcy cases and gets smarter with every case he deals with. Some Swedish and Italian care homes have now had their healthcare staff replaced by robots. Strong ethics and governance are crucial: we have heard reports that in China, facial recognition technology is being used to oppress the Uighur population, with shades of “1984”.

Can it really be that bad? Is every job now at risk, including blue-collar jobs and those of healthcare professionals and lawyers? With Stanford University developing an algorithm that can identify thousands of features from pathology images of lung cancer tissue, and casinos using Al rather than people to detect play and betting fraud, it is easy to agree with those who say that Al is already delivering a major shift in how people live their lives. To an extent, they are right; it is the beginning of a huge change to what we traditionally call work, but maybe it is time for Scotland to rethink what work is. We hear a lot these days about data-driven innovation, but what is it? It is very easy for experts to throw around these buzz-words, but when it comes to artificial intelligence, it is important to be clear. Data-driven innovation is reflective of the rising importance of data in economic growth, public services and social change. High-speed data analytics are used to capture and understand data trends, which brings, according to the University of Edinburgh,

“a better and faster capability to identify trends and behaviour across many sectors, leading to improved services for customers and citizens”.

That brings me to the data-driven innovation initiative. That fantastic initiative, based in Edinburgh and south-east Scotland, is being implemented over 10 years by experts from the University of Edinburgh and Heriot-Watt University. Their experts will collaborate on projects in the public, private and third sectors whose benefits will potentially be huge. Not only will there be opportunities for an increase in the contribution of university research and much sought-after graduate skills to regional economies; there will be the opportunity for jobs to be created through the launch of spin-off companies. Start-ups and established businesses alike will be attracted to Scotland and public and private sector investment will be driven up as a result, which can only be good for Scotland. Although there are still understandable concerns that the advent of Al will mean the net loss of jobs and the robotisation of the jobs that are left, this new technology can and will create and sustain jobs in other sectors of the economy.

The number of people employed in some sectors will undoubtedly contract, as happened during the agricultural and industrial revolutions—as always happens with technological change—yet it is likely that more jobs will be created and that those will be more highly skilled and better paid.

In 2017, Heriot-Watt University’s Edinburgh campus introduced the information and computer technologies and robotics for independent living laboratory, which is essentially an entire flat that mimics a real home environment. The laboratory combines a network of wireless sensors, other devices with an internet connection and state-of-the-art domestic robots.

What is interesting about that project is that, in it, computer and robotics scientists work with health experts, sociologists and psychologists, as well as people who have assisted living needs, in order to find globally applicable solutions. Apart from the obvious advantages and benefits that the project will have for people with such needs, it will also create employment in ways that we have not yet imagined—and that is just one scenario.

September of this year saw the launch of the Scottish Government’s first Al strategy, a vision for how Scotland can unlock the full economic and social potential of artificial intelligence. Last year, I mentioned the report published by the Scottish Council for Development and Industry, ScotlandIS, the Royal Society of Edinburgh and BT Scotland, which was called, “Automatic... For the People?”

Following that, this year, a new and equally excellent report was published, which was called, “Building a World-Leading Al and Data strategy for an Inclusive Scotland”, which explores how Scotland can put itself at the forefront of innovation and development in this crucial field.

Given our flourishing technology sector and the industry-leading minds in such institutions as Heriot-Watt University, Scotland will surely attract other experts and businesses to our country.

In a two-part blog published by PricewaterhouseCoopers early last year, we were warned that the factor that most correlated with “potential job automation” was the level of education of the employee. A number of members have already touched on that important issue.

Logically, that means that the best way to ensure security of employment and a prosperous future for our children is an appropriate education. In Scotland that might include a revision of what is being taught to children and teenagers and asking whether it is enough to keep up with what will be asked of them in the future. Is there enough on problem-solving or analytical skills, for example? I am sure that we would all agree that there is not. Classes involving Al should become as normal as English or maths in our primary schools, and that is a reality that we will have to face, sooner rather than later.

The impact of artificial intelligence should not be feared; it should be harnessed. We will have to ride this tiger whether we like it or not, so it is important that we understand it as fully as we can.

As New York University professor and Facebook’s chief scientist for Al research, Yann LeCun, said:

“Our intelligence is what makes us human, and Al is an extension of that quality.”

15:32  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-19822, in the name of Kate Forbes, on artificial intelligence and data-driven technologies: opportunities...
The Minister for Public Finance and Digital Economy (Kate Forbes) SNP
I am pleased to be in the chamber today to debate the topic of artificial intelligence and data-driven technologies and the opportunities that they offer to ...
Elaine Smith (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
We have to be careful to be clear that not all the fears are unwarranted.
Kate Forbes SNP
Absolutely. I do not disagree with that, nor would I say that all the hype is unwarranted either. That is why in the debate and in the strategy we are trying...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I agree that there are clearly economic opportunities, but to take them our people need to have the right skills. In that regard, can the minister comment on...
Kate Forbes SNP
Daniel Johnson is right to identify the need for skills in that area, but it goes much further than that. Although we need people to have the skills to be ab...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
On the argument about the increasing capabilities that we will have if we share data in a smart way—whether in Government and public services or in the priva...
Kate Forbes SNP
There are two answers to that, neither of which is simple or straightforward. The first is about raising awareness and having a genuine discussion about what...
Finlay Carson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Con
Did the principles that the minister is outlining play a role in producing the new social services database and future Government information systems?
Kate Forbes SNP
Yes—very much so. A key plank in the development of Government policy in that area has been data and our discussions about the ethical elements, as well as t...
Dean Lockhart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Today’s debate on artificial intelligence and data-driven technologies is important. At decision time, we will support the Scottish Government motion. We ha...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I very much agree with what Dean Lockhart is saying, but does he also recognise that it is important to get a representative set of people and occurrences fo...
Dean Lockhart Con
Stewart Stevenson makes a very good point. The outcome of predictive measurement is only as good as the underlying data. Machine learning can help to improve...
Patrick Harvie Green
I welcome the fact that the UK Government is at least exploring the ethical dimensions of the issue. Does the member feel comfortable with its current positi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
I can allow you to speak for up to eight and a half minutes, Mr Lockhart.
Dean Lockhart Con
Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. The point is that regulation of AI has to be done on a multilateral, multinational basis. The UK Government is talki...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
Although the debate is likely to be interesting, it is yet another on one section of the Scottish economy. Developments such as AI do not happen in a vacuum;...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I welcome the fact that the debate has been brought to the chamber. Politics can be very short term. Perhaps especially during an election campaign, we are a...
Kate Forbes SNP
What does Patrick Harvie think of the international dimensions to development of such a framework? Many of the biggest tech companies are not based here, so ...
Patrick Harvie Green
The location of the tech companies is only one of the problems. The fact that some of them appear to be run by sociopathic billionaires is a much deeper prob...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I am grateful to the minister for securing time for the debate. I am not convinced that any of us understand the full magnitude of the changes that Al and da...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We now move to the open debate, with speeches of six minutes, please. 15:26
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to be able to speak about such a fascinating topic once again, having led a members’ business debate early last year on artificial intelligence....
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
The potential and indeed current effects that artificial intelligence and its attendant advantages will have on the economy have been well documented and ext...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
When we think of artificial intelligence, we often think of synthetic life forms, such as the character Data from “Star Trek” or the Terminator, but in 2019,...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Everyone has been very disciplined, so I have a little bit of time in hand. If anybody wishes to intervene, and the intervention is accepted, I can make the ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Thank you for making that invitation, Presiding Officer. I welcome these debates for no less a reason than the one that Emma Harper just demonstrated: they ...
Emma Harper SNP
I have a question about reskilling and undergraduates. Does Daniel Johnson recognise that the Scottish Government has the Scottish graduate entry medicine pr...
Daniel Johnson Lab
That is a good example of facilitating reskilling, but it is one very small example. We need to embrace the fact that many people across multiple disciplines...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
When I graduated from computer science—some time ago, it has to be said—computers of any significance were the size of a big room, and programmes were keyed ...