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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 13 November 2019

13 Nov 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Artificial Intelligence and Data-Driven Technologies
Grant, Rhoda Lab Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV

Although the debate is likely to be interesting, it is yet another on one section of the Scottish economy. Developments such as AI do not happen in a vacuum; they have an impact on other areas of the economy. In order to reap their economic benefits for all our citizens, we need to have an industrial strategy that will co-ordinate our response—one that will pull all our economic levers together and ensure that we create the right conditions to maximise their impact.

Artificial intelligence and data-driven technologies have a lot to offer. They are already changing the way in which we work and live: from Alexa to driverless cars, a huge range of AI technology is already in use. It has the ability to change lives for the better—but it will definitely change them, so we need to make the right choices now to ensure that we will all benefit.

I recently attended a conference in the Western Isles on the subject of dementia. One of the speakers there was very knowledgeable in that area. When he developed dementia, he put that knowledge to good use. He is now planning for his future to be spent at home, maximising his independence by using technology. He already uses Alexa to order his shopping from a local store—not a large supermarket chain, but a small, privately owned shop. He is adapting his fridge to allow his wife, who works away a lot, to see what is there and to order what he should be eating, while, with the help of Alexa, he will continue to order what he probably should not be eating. That allows him independence, but it also allows others to look after him. He does not like being told what to do, so he has programmed Alexa to suggest what he should do and why—thereby using persuasion rather than demand. He knows how artificial intelligence works and programmes it to suit his needs. He admits that positivity was not his first reaction to his diagnosis—as anyone else would be, he was absolutely devastated—but he is now positively taking control of his future.

Such technology will become more and more available and will help people with all kinds of conditions to live their lives more independently. They will not all need to be experts, but they will need the skills to ensure that AI meets their needs. Of course, a note of caution should be sounded: such technology is not like a human being and can do only what it is programmed to do—it is a tool, not a human substitute.

People talk about jobs being lost to AI and robotics. That should not happen, but I recognise the danger of our allowing it to do so. I have never found a form of technology that has allowed me to work less; I have always seen it as allowing me to do more. I believe that that is true of all new technologies. The danger lies in people not keeping up their skills and training so that their jobs are easily replaced by machines that they do not know how to operate.

That point is made in the briefing from the Royal Society of Edinburgh and its partners. They state that there would be a net increase in jobs and that

“it would also be ‘the biggest shake-up in a lifetime’ to Scotland’s labour market”,

with

“the displacement of 544,000 jobs”.

They suggest that priority therefore has to be given to retraining people who will be displaced and ensuring that our education and skills development is fit for the future. Other members have made that point.

That brings into sharp focus the importance of lifelong learning. We have lost a third of our places in further education under this Government, yet further education is where those skills will be learned. The speed of change means that we require constant upgrading of skills.

Close the Gap also sent us a briefing, which points out the underrepresentation of women in the technical sector, where only 23 per cent of the workforce are women. That not only affects women’s earnings, but affects the products that are made by the sector and their suitability for women, and that not only disadvantages women in the technical sector, but impacts on the jobs that they can do in every sector where products and tools are designed for men. The smartphone is an example.

We cannot afford to leave people behind, and that is why this debate must not happen in a silo. It must happen as part of a wider debate around an industrial strategy. We need to look ahead at new technologies and how to develop them and maximise the knock-on jobs, putting the technologies into practice and ensuring that we have a workforce that is ready to do that. Very soon, every job will require skills in technology. The pace of change is incredible and it is speeding up. We need to ensure that our workforce keeps pace with that.

This is not just about work; it is about every aspect of life. We read about the technology that will bring about driverless cars, which is fast approaching, but there are already cars that react to differing road conditions to make them safer, from reacting to icy conditions and ensuring that the car slows down to ensuring that, when the driver brakes hard, it is enough to stop the vehicle in an emergency.

All of that will lead to improvements in our standard of living, but we all need to be part of it and to benefit from it. AI will have the ability to create a larger gap between the haves and the have-nots if we do not take steps to address that now, and preparing the workforce for the change will determine whether we can all benefit. The UK industrial strategy rightly encompasses AI, but we do not have a Scottish industrial strategy at all. The Scottish Government needs to move away from ticking boxes and silo thinking. It needs to produce an industrial strategy that ties all our economic levers together, ensuring that we have a plan to maximise the positive impact of the changes in our industrial base.

I move amendment S5M-19822.3, to insert at end:

“, and considers that this approach should form part of a wider Scottish industrial strategy, ensuring that all of Scotland’s economic opportunities are not only secured but also coordinated across the country in order to safeguard the labour market from widening existing gender and economic inequalities from AI, and striving to achieve inclusive growth in the process.”

15:13  
References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-19822, in the name of Kate Forbes, on artificial intelligence and data-driven technologies: opportunities...
The Minister for Public Finance and Digital Economy (Kate Forbes) SNP
I am pleased to be in the chamber today to debate the topic of artificial intelligence and data-driven technologies and the opportunities that they offer to ...
Elaine Smith (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
We have to be careful to be clear that not all the fears are unwarranted.
Kate Forbes SNP
Absolutely. I do not disagree with that, nor would I say that all the hype is unwarranted either. That is why in the debate and in the strategy we are trying...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I agree that there are clearly economic opportunities, but to take them our people need to have the right skills. In that regard, can the minister comment on...
Kate Forbes SNP
Daniel Johnson is right to identify the need for skills in that area, but it goes much further than that. Although we need people to have the skills to be ab...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
On the argument about the increasing capabilities that we will have if we share data in a smart way—whether in Government and public services or in the priva...
Kate Forbes SNP
There are two answers to that, neither of which is simple or straightforward. The first is about raising awareness and having a genuine discussion about what...
Finlay Carson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Con
Did the principles that the minister is outlining play a role in producing the new social services database and future Government information systems?
Kate Forbes SNP
Yes—very much so. A key plank in the development of Government policy in that area has been data and our discussions about the ethical elements, as well as t...
Dean Lockhart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Today’s debate on artificial intelligence and data-driven technologies is important. At decision time, we will support the Scottish Government motion. We ha...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I very much agree with what Dean Lockhart is saying, but does he also recognise that it is important to get a representative set of people and occurrences fo...
Dean Lockhart Con
Stewart Stevenson makes a very good point. The outcome of predictive measurement is only as good as the underlying data. Machine learning can help to improve...
Patrick Harvie Green
I welcome the fact that the UK Government is at least exploring the ethical dimensions of the issue. Does the member feel comfortable with its current positi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
I can allow you to speak for up to eight and a half minutes, Mr Lockhart.
Dean Lockhart Con
Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. The point is that regulation of AI has to be done on a multilateral, multinational basis. The UK Government is talki...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
Although the debate is likely to be interesting, it is yet another on one section of the Scottish economy. Developments such as AI do not happen in a vacuum;...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I welcome the fact that the debate has been brought to the chamber. Politics can be very short term. Perhaps especially during an election campaign, we are a...
Kate Forbes SNP
What does Patrick Harvie think of the international dimensions to development of such a framework? Many of the biggest tech companies are not based here, so ...
Patrick Harvie Green
The location of the tech companies is only one of the problems. The fact that some of them appear to be run by sociopathic billionaires is a much deeper prob...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I am grateful to the minister for securing time for the debate. I am not convinced that any of us understand the full magnitude of the changes that Al and da...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We now move to the open debate, with speeches of six minutes, please. 15:26
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to be able to speak about such a fascinating topic once again, having led a members’ business debate early last year on artificial intelligence....
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
The potential and indeed current effects that artificial intelligence and its attendant advantages will have on the economy have been well documented and ext...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
When we think of artificial intelligence, we often think of synthetic life forms, such as the character Data from “Star Trek” or the Terminator, but in 2019,...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Everyone has been very disciplined, so I have a little bit of time in hand. If anybody wishes to intervene, and the intervention is accepted, I can make the ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Thank you for making that invitation, Presiding Officer. I welcome these debates for no less a reason than the one that Emma Harper just demonstrated: they ...
Emma Harper SNP
I have a question about reskilling and undergraduates. Does Daniel Johnson recognise that the Scottish Government has the Scottish graduate entry medicine pr...
Daniel Johnson Lab
That is a good example of facilitating reskilling, but it is one very small example. We need to embrace the fact that many people across multiple disciplines...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
When I graduated from computer science—some time ago, it has to be said—computers of any significance were the size of a big room, and programmes were keyed ...