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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 13 November 2019

13 Nov 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Artificial Intelligence and Data-Driven Technologies
Forbes, Kate SNP Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch Watch on SPTV

I am pleased to be in the chamber today to debate the topic of artificial intelligence and data-driven technologies and the opportunities that they offer to the Scottish economy and society, as well as the challenges that they pose. It is an important topic, which increasingly touches many aspects of the lives of our constituents.

The Scottish Government has a vision to

“Use Scotland’s data to its full potential by driving innovation, improving public services and unlocking economic value—saving time, money and lives”.

We are mindful that data innovation can benefit the Scottish economy and improve the productivity and efficiency of organisations, including those in the public sector. It can also attract new businesses and highly paid jobs. In delivering our commitment in the programme for government to develop an AI strategy, we are trying to ensure that Scotland maximises the potential economic and social benefits of AI and sends a strong signal to the world about our ambition.

However, we also recognise that AI raises several important issues that need to be addressed urgently to ensure that it is used ethically and that people in Scotland can benefit from the changes that it will bring to how we live and work in the future. Our intent is therefore to develop a strategy that has the citizen at its heart and the benefits to the citizen as its core guiding principle to ensure that no one is left behind and the strategy is aligned with the national performance framework. Over the next year, the Government will work with the public, industry, public bodies and organisations, academia and beyond to set out Scotland’s ambitions, principles and priority actions on AI and a route to securing public support as the precursor to realising economic, social and environmental value.

Today is an opportunity to start that national conversation in the Scottish Parliament and I look forward to engaging with members across the chamber. I am sure that we will have a robust debate because, on the one hand, there are potential benefits and, on the other hand, there is a need to have a debate to ensure that citizens are at the heart of the strategy and are not left behind and that some of the negatives around AI do not cause them to feel concern and fear. I also hope that we can agree on the fundamentals that will enable the opportunities of AI and data-driven technologies to be realised for Scottish society and the economy, including having a strong ethical underpinning that has public support, as outlined in the motion.

There is no commonly agreed definition of AI among experts. For the purpose of the debate, we can think of AI as a set of techniques that are used to allow computers to perform tasks normally requiring human intelligence, such as visual perception, speech recognition, translation between languages and decision making. Everyone will have heard media stories about AI that promise either utopia or dystopia but often both. AI is very much a misunderstood revolution and unwarranted hype and fears obscure the real opportunities that we need to seize and the real challenges that we need to overcome.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-19822, in the name of Kate Forbes, on artificial intelligence and data-driven technologies: opportunities...
The Minister for Public Finance and Digital Economy (Kate Forbes) SNP
I am pleased to be in the chamber today to debate the topic of artificial intelligence and data-driven technologies and the opportunities that they offer to ...
Elaine Smith (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
We have to be careful to be clear that not all the fears are unwarranted.
Kate Forbes SNP
Absolutely. I do not disagree with that, nor would I say that all the hype is unwarranted either. That is why in the debate and in the strategy we are trying...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I agree that there are clearly economic opportunities, but to take them our people need to have the right skills. In that regard, can the minister comment on...
Kate Forbes SNP
Daniel Johnson is right to identify the need for skills in that area, but it goes much further than that. Although we need people to have the skills to be ab...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
On the argument about the increasing capabilities that we will have if we share data in a smart way—whether in Government and public services or in the priva...
Kate Forbes SNP
There are two answers to that, neither of which is simple or straightforward. The first is about raising awareness and having a genuine discussion about what...
Finlay Carson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Con
Did the principles that the minister is outlining play a role in producing the new social services database and future Government information systems?
Kate Forbes SNP
Yes—very much so. A key plank in the development of Government policy in that area has been data and our discussions about the ethical elements, as well as t...
Dean Lockhart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Today’s debate on artificial intelligence and data-driven technologies is important. At decision time, we will support the Scottish Government motion. We ha...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I very much agree with what Dean Lockhart is saying, but does he also recognise that it is important to get a representative set of people and occurrences fo...
Dean Lockhart Con
Stewart Stevenson makes a very good point. The outcome of predictive measurement is only as good as the underlying data. Machine learning can help to improve...
Patrick Harvie Green
I welcome the fact that the UK Government is at least exploring the ethical dimensions of the issue. Does the member feel comfortable with its current positi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
I can allow you to speak for up to eight and a half minutes, Mr Lockhart.
Dean Lockhart Con
Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. The point is that regulation of AI has to be done on a multilateral, multinational basis. The UK Government is talki...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
Although the debate is likely to be interesting, it is yet another on one section of the Scottish economy. Developments such as AI do not happen in a vacuum;...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I welcome the fact that the debate has been brought to the chamber. Politics can be very short term. Perhaps especially during an election campaign, we are a...
Kate Forbes SNP
What does Patrick Harvie think of the international dimensions to development of such a framework? Many of the biggest tech companies are not based here, so ...
Patrick Harvie Green
The location of the tech companies is only one of the problems. The fact that some of them appear to be run by sociopathic billionaires is a much deeper prob...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I am grateful to the minister for securing time for the debate. I am not convinced that any of us understand the full magnitude of the changes that Al and da...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We now move to the open debate, with speeches of six minutes, please. 15:26
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to be able to speak about such a fascinating topic once again, having led a members’ business debate early last year on artificial intelligence....
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
The potential and indeed current effects that artificial intelligence and its attendant advantages will have on the economy have been well documented and ext...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
When we think of artificial intelligence, we often think of synthetic life forms, such as the character Data from “Star Trek” or the Terminator, but in 2019,...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Everyone has been very disciplined, so I have a little bit of time in hand. If anybody wishes to intervene, and the intervention is accepted, I can make the ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Thank you for making that invitation, Presiding Officer. I welcome these debates for no less a reason than the one that Emma Harper just demonstrated: they ...
Emma Harper SNP
I have a question about reskilling and undergraduates. Does Daniel Johnson recognise that the Scottish Government has the Scottish graduate entry medicine pr...
Daniel Johnson Lab
That is a good example of facilitating reskilling, but it is one very small example. We need to embrace the fact that many people across multiple disciplines...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
When I graduated from computer science—some time ago, it has to be said—computers of any significance were the size of a big room, and programmes were keyed ...