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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 06 November 2019

06 Nov 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Curriculum for Excellence

I rise to support the motion and to speak to the far from dismal amendment in my name.

I congratulate Liz Smith on bringing the debate to the chamber. In truth, it is a very short debate for an enormously important and complex subject. That, of course, is because Opposition debates are, it seems, the only way in which we can debate school education at all in the Parliament. It is now more than two whole years since the Government saw fit to bring forward a debate on schools in its own time. That happened on 2 November 2017, and that debate was about the presumption of mainstreaming. It is even longer since the last Government debate on school education in general. We have to go back to June 2017 to find that. It is hard not to draw the conclusion that the Government is somewhat reluctant to have its record on education scrutinised. Given the figures that Professor Scott published this week, which are referred to in the Conservative motion, perhaps that is not surprising.

Professor Scott’s analysis of the SQA results is very worrying. The analysis is very detailed, of course, but the headline figures show that, since the introduction of the new exams, attainment has declined by 32.9 per cent in S4 and by nearly 10 per cent in S5. The raw numbers are even starker. Professor Scott calculates that, over the six and five years respectively since the introduction of the new exams, pupils have achieved 807,000 fewer qualifications in S4 and 36,000 fewer qualifications in S5 than might have been expected. Those are alarming figures, and the impact is not uniform.

It is entirely legitimate to look at the percentage of pupils who leave school with no qualifications at all, because they are at the sharpest end of the attainment gap. The number of such pupils is rising quickly and has reached more than 3 per cent in a quarter of local authorities, as Liz Smith said. It is the case, as John Swinney said, that the number had fallen to a low of 1.5 per cent, but the point is that that was an historic trend. The number had been falling since the introduction of comprehensive education, when some 70 per cent of young people left school without qualifications. It took us 50 years to reverse that trend, and we should start to worry if it turns around again.

In S5 and S6 in particular, the drop in the number of enrolments, as well as in attainment, is hitting STEM subjects and modern languages hardest. Professor Scott makes the point that some languages face an existential threat in our schools.

The worst thing is that none of this is new. In May 2015, Labour first raised Professor Scott’s work in the chamber. The First Minister and the Deputy First Minister dismissed our concerns but, four years on, there have been not only alarming numbers but alarming and consistent downward trends. Professor Scott is not a lone voice any more. The Education and Skills Committee’s recent report on the underlying causes of the fall in the number of qualifications uncovered evidence from a wide range of sources of a narrowing of the curriculum, the prevalence of multilevel teaching and pressure on overworked teachers. All those issues are relevant and are part of Labour’s amendment.

Given that I have mentioned overworked teachers, let me be very clear. I visit schools all the time, as I know Mr Swinney does, too, and the quality and professionalism of teachers are, indeed, second to none. The level of professionalism is much greater than it was when I was a teacher 35 years ago. The problems lie not with our teaching staff but in the management and structures relating to the implementation of curriculum for excellence.

I understand that the Government has agreed to a review, but that was asked for in May, and we have heard only today how it will be taken forward.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-19717, in the name of Liz Smith, on curriculum for excellence. 15:55
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
When the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development produced its very important and comprehensive report on Scottish education in 2015, it priori...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
I wonder how Liz Smith would describe a 75 per cent higher pass rate? Does she not consider that to be a strong performance by the young people of Scotland?
Liz Smith Con
I think that Mr Swinney should listen to what his civil servants have been telling him about their concerns about the downturn in the highers pass rate. That...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call John Swinney to speak to and move amendment S5M-19717.1. I beg your pardon—I mean S5M-19717.2. You were about to move the Labour amendment, cabinet se...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
I would have been unable to move the dismal words of the Labour amendment. I will, however, move the amendment in my name, which you properly ascribed to me....
Liz Smith Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
John Swinney SNP
I will give way in a second. Let me first put some details on the record. The gap for those achieving at least one pass or more at level 5—such as national ...
Liz Smith Con
Professor Jim Scott’s analysis, which was published earlier this week, deals with the issue methodically—school by school and local authority by local author...
John Swinney SNP
I was coming to discussion of the analysis that Professor Scott issued this week, because Liz Smith’s motion refers to it, and she referred to it in her comm...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
John Swinney SNP
I will continue, if Mr Johnson will forgive me. Around a fifth of leavers left with a course award—for example, a national 2 award, an employability award, ...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I rise to support the motion and to speak to the far from dismal amendment in my name. I congratulate Liz Smith on bringing the debate to the chamber. In tr...
The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
Could you conclude, please, Mr Gray?
Iain Gray Lab
It is critical that the review moves forward quickly. I move amendment SM5-19717.1, to insert after “delivery of CfE”: “recognises that such failures have ...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
I thank Liz Smith for bringing the topic for debate. Like Iain Gray, I am frustrated that, once again, we are debating education during Opposition time alone...
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
Here were are again—another Opposition-led debate on the state of Scotland’s education system. I thank the Conservatives for giving us the opportunity to deb...
Dr Alasdair Allan (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) SNP
I appreciate that any individual teacher is entitled to their view, but the member says that she regards that as a “useful” contribution. Does she really thi...
Beatrice Wishart LD
As I said, I do not agree with the description, but I was coming on to make the point that it is useful to think of it in another way, which is that curricul...
Alison Harris (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
The motion is focused on the weaknesses in the delivery of the curriculum for excellence and the real effect that those are having on Scotland’s children. Th...
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) SNP
Like many members, I took very seriously the Education and Skills Committee’s concerns when it undertook its inquiry into subject choice, but I do not think ...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Will the member give way?
Clare Adamson SNP
I think that I am out of time.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Yes, I am afraid that you are. 16:29
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I will follow on from where the convener of the Education and Skills Committee left off. She is right that it is vital that we look at the curriculum for exc...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Please conclude, Mr Johnson.
Daniel Johnson Lab
We need to understand how we are achieving. We need to have confidence in the measurements that we have of our education system. 16:34
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
I welcome this opportunity to discuss curriculum for excellence, and in particular the work that the Government is doing to close the attainment gap across S...
Liz Smith Con
Does the member agree with the work that Professor Jim Scott has published? He made painstaking efforts to ensure that the evidence that he produced was accu...
Rona Mackay SNP
I understand that Professor Scott carried out a great deal of detailed work. I cannot say for sure whether it is 100 per cent accurate. We can throw statisti...