Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 06 November 2019
06 Nov 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Curriculum for Excellence
I was coming to discussion of the analysis that Professor Scott issued this week, because Liz Smith’s motion refers to it, and she referred to it in her comments.
I am aware that one statistic—on the proportion of young people leaving school with no qualifications—has drawn particular attention. However, I ask members to exercise caution in using one statistic from which to draw definitive conclusions about the system. The no-qualifications rate reached a low point of 1.5 per cent in 2012-13. It has remained at around 2 per cent over the past three years. However, that data, as with much of Jim Scott’s analysis, focuses solely on national qualifications at Scottish credit and qualifications framework level 3 and above. It is a fact that not all of those young people leave with nothing: the majority of those leavers achieved a course award or unit assessment.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-19717, in the name of Liz Smith, on curriculum for excellence. 15:55
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
When the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development produced its very important and comprehensive report on Scottish education in 2015, it priori...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney)
SNP
I wonder how Liz Smith would describe a 75 per cent higher pass rate? Does she not consider that to be a strong performance by the young people of Scotland?
Liz Smith
Con
I think that Mr Swinney should listen to what his civil servants have been telling him about their concerns about the downturn in the highers pass rate. That...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
I call John Swinney to speak to and move amendment S5M-19717.1. I beg your pardon—I mean S5M-19717.2. You were about to move the Labour amendment, cabinet se...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney)
SNP
I would have been unable to move the dismal words of the Labour amendment. I will, however, move the amendment in my name, which you properly ascribed to me....
Liz Smith
Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
John Swinney
SNP
I will give way in a second. Let me first put some details on the record. The gap for those achieving at least one pass or more at level 5—such as national ...
Liz Smith
Con
Professor Jim Scott’s analysis, which was published earlier this week, deals with the issue methodically—school by school and local authority by local author...
John Swinney
SNP
I was coming to discussion of the analysis that Professor Scott issued this week, because Liz Smith’s motion refers to it, and she referred to it in her comm...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
John Swinney
SNP
I will continue, if Mr Johnson will forgive me. Around a fifth of leavers left with a course award—for example, a national 2 award, an employability award, ...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
I rise to support the motion and to speak to the far from dismal amendment in my name. I congratulate Liz Smith on bringing the debate to the chamber. In tr...
The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh)
NPA
Could you conclude, please, Mr Gray?
Iain Gray
Lab
It is critical that the review moves forward quickly. I move amendment SM5-19717.1, to insert after “delivery of CfE”: “recognises that such failures have ...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green)
Green
I thank Liz Smith for bringing the topic for debate. Like Iain Gray, I am frustrated that, once again, we are debating education during Opposition time alone...
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD)
LD
Here were are again—another Opposition-led debate on the state of Scotland’s education system. I thank the Conservatives for giving us the opportunity to deb...
Dr Alasdair Allan (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
SNP
I appreciate that any individual teacher is entitled to their view, but the member says that she regards that as a “useful” contribution. Does she really thi...
Beatrice Wishart
LD
As I said, I do not agree with the description, but I was coming on to make the point that it is useful to think of it in another way, which is that curricul...
Alison Harris (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
The motion is focused on the weaknesses in the delivery of the curriculum for excellence and the real effect that those are having on Scotland’s children. Th...
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)
SNP
Like many members, I took very seriously the Education and Skills Committee’s concerns when it undertook its inquiry into subject choice, but I do not think ...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Will the member give way?
Clare Adamson
SNP
I think that I am out of time.
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Yes, I am afraid that you are. 16:29
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Lab
I will follow on from where the convener of the Education and Skills Committee left off. She is right that it is vital that we look at the curriculum for exc...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Please conclude, Mr Johnson.
Daniel Johnson
Lab
We need to understand how we are achieving. We need to have confidence in the measurements that we have of our education system. 16:34
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
SNP
I welcome this opportunity to discuss curriculum for excellence, and in particular the work that the Government is doing to close the attainment gap across S...
Liz Smith
Con
Does the member agree with the work that Professor Jim Scott has published? He made painstaking efforts to ensure that the evidence that he produced was accu...
Rona Mackay
SNP
I understand that Professor Scott carried out a great deal of detailed work. I cannot say for sure whether it is 100 per cent accurate. We can throw statisti...