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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 30 October 2019

30 Oct 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Glasgow School of Art Fire

I welcome the opportunity to take part in this afternoon’s debate. I thank the committee for the important work that it has done in the inquiry to highlight the key issues in respect of the two fires at the Glasgow School of Art.

I recall leaving a meeting in May 2014 in Bath Street in Glasgow and heading up towards Sauchiehall Street. It was lunchtime; smoke was beginning to fill the sky and people were shocked and a bit fearful about what was happening. They were even more shocked later when it became apparent that the Glasgow School of Art was on fire. It is an iconic building, so that shocked many people, as members have said.

Imagine how that shock was amplified four years later. I again found myself in Glasgow city centre returning from a social event on a Friday night. I dropped somebody off on Sauchiehall Street, and we could sense that there was a bit of a commotion. However, by the time I had driven home, it was all over the news that the art school building was again on fire. Twice in four years—nobody could quite believe it. Therefore, the committee’s inquiry is really important.

However, we get the sense that the committee has been slightly hamstrung in undertaking its work due to the lack of a report from the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service. It is crucial that that report be completed as quickly as possible. There were calls for that in June this year, when Pauline McNeill held her members’ business debate on the issue, but four months down the line, we still await the report, which will be an important piece of the jigsaw.

Members have absolutely correctly highlighted the role of the Glasgow School of Art’s management. It is astonishing that, at the time of the 2014 fire, there were fire risks associated with the building, which the committee report underlines. It is also astonishing that the water-mist suppression system, which was identified in 2008 as being necessary to give protection from fire, was not fully installed by the time of the 2014 fire. It is equally astonishing that, in 2018 on the night of the fire, the fire alarm was not working. As Pauline McNeill said, that beggars belief.

A lot of other issues are covered in the report, but those issues alone raise serious questions about the management of the Glasgow School of Art. From looking at the report and the Glasgow School of Art’s response, there is a sense that it is prickly about the criticism. After two such large fires in four years and a catalogue of errors and mismanagement, we really have to ask whether it is time for somebody to take responsibility and to stand up and be counted.

Patrick Harvie and Adam Tomkins—who, along with Pauline McNeill, have done a lot of good work on the issue in Glasgow—highlighted the fact that the local community has continued to be left in an isolated position as a result of the fire. The 2018 fire devastated a lot of businesses around Sauchiehall Street, and some people were moved from their homes and split up from their families. Concerns remain about the lack of support from and engagement by the GSA. I was struck by what Patrick Harvie said about the resident who has in 28 years had no engagement with the art school—that is a real failure of public responsibility.

There are multiple issues, which is why members and the committee are right to call for a public inquiry. Such an inquiry is necessary because we still do not know properly why the fires happened in 2014 and 2018. Clearly, important lessons have to be learned from the incidents. There are serious questions to be asked about the role of the GSA, which is severely criticised in the report and in members’ speeches. A public inquiry needs to look at those issues.

There should also be an examination of how we protect historic buildings throughout Scotland to ensure that there are no fire risks. In doing that, I hope that the Government will take on board the calls for a public inquiry and the need to be more proactive in looking at its role with regard to other historic buildings and the Glasgow School of Art. The Government has a responsibility in this.

The committee has carried out an important piece of work, but that is by no means the end of the matter. Many questions remain unanswered. We need a public inquiry and identification by the minister of the action that the Government will take to address the serious issues that have been mentioned this afternoon.

16:08  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a Culture, Tourism, Europe and External Affairs Committee debate on motion S5M-19553, in the name of Joan McAlpine, on the Glasg...
Joan McAlpine (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
On behalf of the Culture, Tourism, Europe and External Affairs Committee, I welcome the opportunity to debate the committee’s report, “The Glasgow School of ...
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
Does the member agree that the public inquiry—which I agree should be held—should look not only backwards at what happened in 2018 and why it happened but fo...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You will get all your time back, Ms McAlpine.
Joan McAlpine SNP
Thank you. I do not want to pre-empt the public inquiry, but the committee’s report did look forward and said that the decision on future management of the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Some members apparently want to speak but have not pressed their request-to-speak buttons, so I am at a loss as to whether they still want to speak. 15:13
The Minister for Further Education, Higher Education and Science (Richard Lochhead) SNP
I commend Joan McAlpine, the convener of the Culture, Tourism, Europe and External Affairs Committee, and her colleagues on it, for their substantial and tho...
Adam Tomkins Con
Does the minister agree that the GSA management not only allowed this iconic building to burn down twice in four years but, in the aftermath of the 2018 fire...
Richard Lochhead SNP
Although I would not necessarily use the same language as Adam Tomkins used, I certainly think that there are harsh lessons to be learned—as the Glasgow Scho...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
I thank the Culture, Tourism, Europe and External Affairs Committee for its work and for bringing its report to the chamber today. The Charles Rennie Mackint...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I thank the committee and its convener, Joan McAlpine. The committee made a forensic examination of the tragedy of the Glasgow School of Art fire. The commit...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I recognise the work of the committee in producing its report and I agree with its central conclusions. Yes, indeed, the public inquiry will be required and ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
We move to the open debate. Speeches should be of a maximum of six minutes, please. 15:43
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
I thank Joan McAlpine for leading the debate on behalf of the Culture, Tourism, Europe and External Affairs Committee, of which I am a member. I know that bu...
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I am grateful for the opportunity to take part in the debate today, and I commend the committee for its work and its report. In February this year, one mont...
Annabelle Ewing (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) SNP
As a member of the Culture, Tourism, Europe and External Affairs Committee, I am pleased to have been called to contribute to this afternoon’s debate on our ...
James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to take part in this afternoon’s debate. I thank the committee for the important work that it has done in the inquiry to highlight ...
Tom Arthur (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) SNP
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate and I put on record my thanks to the committee and the clerks for producing the report, which is a s...
Annie Wells (Glasgow) (Con) Con
Shortly before the summer recess, I spoke in the members’ business debate that marked one year since the second Glasgow School of Art fire. On 15 June last y...
Joan McAlpine SNP
The member quite rightly cites recent reports. Does she agree that some of the investigative journalism that has been done by The Sunday Post and The Times h...
Annie Wells Con
I absolutely agree with Joan McAlpine. Whatever happens next, public confidence will need to be restored. Once the outcome of the fire service’s inquiry is ...
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP
I support the committee’s report. As a member of the Culture, Tourism, Europe and External Affairs Committee, I found the inquiry to be both saddening and fa...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
We move to the closing speeches. 16:27
Pauline McNeill Lab
I acknowledge Stuart McMillan’s point that, fortunately, no one lost their life in the fires. A committee report such as the one that we are considering shou...
Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I am pleased to close for the Scottish Conservatives in the Culture, Tourism, Europe and External Affairs Committee debate on the Glasgow School of Art fires...
Richard Lochhead SNP
I thank colleagues for their thoughtful and constructive contributions to this afternoon’s debate. MSPs across the chamber have made powerful and thought-pro...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
As deputy convener of the Culture, Tourism, Europe and External Affairs Committee, I am pleased to close the debate. I thank members for their excellent spee...
The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
Keep the noise down, please.
Claire Baker Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. Other universities and colleges own grade A listed and historic buildings, but the Glasgow School of Art is alone in having su...