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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 02 October 2019

02 Oct 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Nursery Funding (Deferred Entry to Primary School)
Johnson, Daniel Lab Edinburgh Southern Watch on SPTV

I am pleased to speak in the debate in support of the Give Them Time campaign, because the simple reality is this: the moment when they send their five-year-old to school is an anxious one for any parent. They worry about how their child will get on and whether they are ready, and that is especially true if it is not a five-year-old, but a four-year-old, whom they are sending to school.

That is not just an emotional decision for a parent; it is a reasonable decision, because we know that happy, confident and well-socialised children learn better in school. What is more, the science is also clear: as Ross Greer pointed out, study after study has shown that when children start school later their educational outcomes are improved and that older children do better than younger ones in the same class. Therefore it is right that parents are given the option to defer the start date for a child who is not yet five when the school year starts. That is exactly what the law currently does: the Education (Scotland) Act 1980 is clear in recognising that such judgments should be made by parents.

Likewise, the Scottish Government’s early years policy is the right one, for the two clear reasons that it espouses. First, it is right that we aim to give every child the best start in their education that we can. It is also important for working families that early years provision is put in place. However, the Government has created an absurd gap, because early years provision stops before school provision has to start. There are two important dates: December for early years provision and September for school. If the policy of extending early years provision is right, surely it should be in place for as long as it is needed. Quite simply, that gap needs to be fixed, because the system needs to be fair for all families.

I turn to the Scottish National Party’s amendment. It recognises the issue, which I welcome. However, its focus is on two aspects, which I believe is incorrect. The first of those is funding. The extension of early years provision is a policy of the Scottish Government, which provides the funding for it. It therefore calls the shots and could extend the provision if there were to be a question mark over it. However, I make the small observation that we all know how hard pushed local authorities are to deliver such provision on the basis of the funding. It strikes me that there might be more than a little penny pinching on the part of local authorities—if they are making such decisions at all.

The more fundamental point that is at stake is about standards. Of course, there should be discretion in how education policy is delivered at local level. However, that should not apply to everything. We set standards at national level. We do not leave it up to schools to set the age at which they start teaching children; that is set out in law. Neither do we leave it up to local authorities to decide whether they will provide early years education; we say that they must do so. The extension of early years provision to children with later birthdays is another standard that I think local authorities should have to uphold.

The second issue with the SNP’s amendment is that it acknowledges only two parties in relation to such decisions: central and local government. The reality is that those decisions ought not to be made by either of those parties: they are decisions for parents, who should also have the right to flexibility—

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-19193, in the name of Iain Gray, on the Give Them Time campaign. I will let members take their seats as e...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I am very pleased to move the motion in order to correct a legal anomaly that creates real problems for families across Scotland. I begin by paying tribute ...
The Minister for Children and Young People (Maree Todd) SNP
I am glad to have a further opportunity to discuss school deferral, following my recent appearance at the Education and Skills Committee where I made it clea...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I am grateful to the minister for giving way. Does she accept that, as things stand, the flexibility that she mentions is flexible only for those parents who...
Maree Todd SNP
I would not agree with that. Interruption. I will continue, if the member will allow me to do so. As members know, when parents choose to defer the start of ...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister do Daniel Johnson the courtesy of answering his question?
Maree Todd SNP
I just answered it. I will answer it more fully if I am allowed to progress. It is a real strength of our system that Scotland has a fully integrated three ...
Iain Gray Lab
Will Maree Todd take an intervention?
Maree Todd SNP
I am in my final minute.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Time has been built in for interventions, but it is for members to decide whether to take them.
Maree Todd SNP
I will finish. We will continue to work with parents, practitioners and their representatives to support parents and carers to make an informed decision for...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con
I am pleased to open the debate on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives and confirm our support for the Labour motion. I thank lain Gray for providing the P...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
I thank lain Gray for bringing this issue to Parliament today. The age at which children in Scotland start school directly impacts on how ready they are to ...
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
I thank Labour for the debate and pay tribute to the impressive campaign run by Give Them Time, which has already made a real difference for many of our cons...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
We move to the open debate and speeches of four minutes. Some members have not pressed their request-to-speak buttons yet, although I suspect that they are r...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to speak in the debate in support of the Give Them Time campaign, because the simple reality is this: the moment when they send their five-year-...
Maree Todd SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The member is just closing.
Daniel Johnson Lab
Parents should be afforded such decisions now—not once the Government has had further discussions. 15:08
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
I, too, thank Iain Gray for using his time to discuss the issue, which I have taken up over the past eight to 10 months. However, as other members have said,...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I thank Iain Gray for bringing this debate to the chamber in Labour Party time. I also pay tribute to Fulton MacGregor, not just for his remarks in the debat...
Jenny Gilruth (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) SNP
I pay tribute to my friend and colleague Fulton MacGregor, who first brought the matter of the Give Them Time campaign to the chamber in May this year in a m...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
This is not the first time that the Parliament has debated the aims of the Give Them Time campaign, but it is the first time that we will have a vote on the ...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I, too, thank Iain Gray for giving us the opportunity to debate this crucial issue in the chamber once again. Under the Education (Scotland) Act 1980, as we ...
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) SNP
I, too, commend my colleague Fulton McGregor. I attended but did not speak in the debate in May. That was when I first really understood the scope and scale ...
Alison Harris (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank Iain Gray for bringing the debate to the chamber, and I pay tribute to Fulton MacGregor. I also want to commend speeches by members from across the c...
Maree Todd SNP
I thank everyone who has spoken in this debate. I know that many members will be familiar with issues relating to the policy that we are discussing, and migh...
Iain Gray Lab
The motion is explicit that the legislation should change in this parliamentary session. Will the minister give that commitment?
Maree Todd SNP
As I have said, I will talk to local government partners and will update Parliament on that in due course. We all agree that parents and carers should be su...
Oliver Mundell Con
If the minister is not able to commit to legislation in this parliamentary session, will she commit today to putting interim arrangements in place to make su...