Hansard

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP

The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-18896, in the name of Liam Kerr, on restoring trust in criminal sentencing. 15:51

Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con

I have lodged this motion because I am sure that all of us in the chamber have met victims and their families who have expressed disbelief and horror at what...

The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP

Excuse me, Mr Kerr. This is a quiet chamber at the moment, and I can hear Mr Neil’s and Mr Lyle’s conversation at the back of the room. They cannot hear me, ...

Liam Kerr Con

Thank you, Presiding Officer. That is the reality, because every criminal who is sentenced to under four years in jail is automatically released halfway th...

Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab

Can the member enlighten us about which Government introduced that automatic release measure ?

Liam Kerr Con

I am happy to. It was introduced by the Conservative Government, which was seeking to wind it up in 1997 when a Labour Government came in and did not bother....

The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Humza Yousaf) SNP

Liam Kerr mentioned the horrific case of the brutal murder of Alesha MacPhail. Does he recognise that his own proposed bill for whole-life custody, which is ...

The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP

Before Mr Kerr rises, I note that I have time in hand, so members need not be concerned about interventions—during the early part of the debate, at least.

Liam Kerr Con

I understand the cabinet secretary’s point, and I will come back to whole-life sentences—he should have no fear of that. The point that I am making is abou...

The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Humza Yousaf) SNP

Although I disagree with his motion—to which we have, of course, lodged an amendment—I thank Liam Kerr for bringing today’s debate. It is an important debate...

Liam Kerr Con

Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?

Humza Yousaf SNP

I was about to quote from a speech that Lady Dorrian gave, but I will give way to Liam Kerr before I do so.

Liam Kerr Con

I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for taking my intervention, but I am concerned about what he said about automatic early release. Does he think that it...

Humza Yousaf SNP

Abolishing automatic early release for short-term prisoners is not the right thing at all. A couple of days ago, I was questioned about—

Liam Kerr Con

Will the cabinet secretary take a further intervention?

Humza Yousaf SNP

No, I will not. I ask Mr Kerr to give me a second to develop my point. Yesterday in the chamber, I took questions about our prison population, which I think ...

Liam Kerr Con

The cabinet secretary will recall that, in 2006, he gave The Herald a quote to the effect that he was in favour of abolishing automatic early release. I am t...

Humza Yousaf SNP

First of all, whatever I said then in The Herald would have been about abolishing automatic early release for long-term prisoners, which the Parliament chose...

The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP

You must conclude there.

Humza Yousaf SNP

However, I look forward to hearing the rest of the debate.

The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP

Please move your amendment, cabinet secretary

Humza Yousaf SNP

I move amendment S5M-18896.3, to leave out from “believes” to end and insert: “, while acknowledging that more can always be done to ensure that public conf...

James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab

I welcome the opportunity to speak in this Conservative business debate, which has been brought to the chamber by Liam Kerr. I am not closed to the idea of ...

Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con

Will the member take an intervention?

James Kelly Lab

I am a bit short of time. I am sorry.

The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP

I can give you the time back if you want to take the intervention, Mr Kelly.

James Kelly Lab

Yes—sure.

Margaret Mitchell Con

I thank the member. Does he recognise that the remand population, which includes people who should not be on remand, is the area that we should be looking at...

James Kelly Lab

There are different ways to look at reducing the prison population—some of them have come up in recent days—but if we consider the central thrust of Liam Ker...

John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green

Mr Kerr has brought a philosophical debate to the chamber. I have to say that I increasingly find Mr Kerr’s views distasteful. I am not convinced that they a...