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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 11 September 2019

11 Sep 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Citizens Assembly of Scotland

I am trying to make a point that can be believed or not believed. There was no intention to say that the citizens assembly would be driving forward any agenda other than the one that I have put forward. I understand and respect David Martin’s point of view, and if we had our time again, perhaps we would have done it in a different way. That is a fair reflection of where I stand on the matter.

The first important step in achieving a fully independent citizens assembly was the appointment of two entirely independent conveners, whose role is to steward, lead and represent the assembly. David Martin and his distinguished track record as a Labour MEP, speaking for Scotland in Europe, will be familiar to everyone here, and his integrity and expertise when it comes to many of the most pressing issues of the day is unimpeachable. Kate Wimpress has established and led arts organisations in Scotland and Northern Ireland for nearly 30 years. She brings to her new role considerable experience of engaging and inspiring communities and insight into how best to listen to and amplify the voices of the less heard. It is over to them now.

This week, we have published a memorandum of understanding between the Scottish Government and the conveners. The memorandum will, I hope, make real the promises that we have made about the assembly’s independence. It provides for a secretariat that is accountable to, and takes its direction from, the conveners. It also provides for a budget and for the assembly’s ability to receive, directly and independently, the advice, support and services that it requires.

It is essential that the assembly is run to the highest standards of public administration, that it demonstrates the potential for deliberative democracy, and that it fulfils the ambition of everyone who is involved to develop something inclusive, accessible, and open minded.

I understand the need for reassurance, and I am happy to meet with any representative of any party who wants to discuss the issue further. I encourage them to meet the conveners and discuss such matters.

Recruitment of the members of the assembly has already begun. People are out there, knocking on doors, working to find a broadly representative cross-section of Scottish society to take part in something very special. For six weekends, between this October and April next year, they will debate, share views and decide on recommendations that could shape the future of their country. The first meeting will be held over the weekend of 26 and 27 October. That is only days before the current date of prospective European Union exit. Things will undoubtedly change before then, and change again before the assembly finally reports in May next year. Almost certainly, there will be a general election in the United Kingdom.

The Government will continue to press for a referendum that would allow the United Kingdom to stay in the EU. We will request the section 30 order that will put this Parliament’s ability to hold a referendum on the constitutional future of our country—which it has voted for—beyond challenge.

That uncertain background does not imperil the citizens assembly; rather, it makes it even more essential. With public attention focused on the latest indignity to emerge from Westminster, the assembly will have a calmer, longer-term perspective.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-18778, in the name of Michael Russell, on the citizens assembly of Scotland. 15:11
The Cabinet Secretary for Government Business and Constitutional Relations (Michael Russell) SNP
I am sure that every member of the Scottish Parliament will always listen attentively to what Scotland has to say. All of us as MSPs listen to and act on wha...
Mike Rumbles (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
Will the member take an intervention?
Michael Russell SNP
I will in a moment. If I am open to the views of the assembly, surely they should be, too. Surely they are not afraid to listen.
Mike Rumbles LD
I am glad that the cabinet secretary took my intervention and that he is not afraid to listen. One of the problems is that there is a great lack of trust ab...
Michael Russell SNP
It is the lack of trust that I am seeking to address today. I will say more about the independence of the citizens assembly now. Interruption. I am sure that...
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
On the subjects of trust and thinking anew, does the cabinet secretary agree with the remarks that are attributed to David Martin, one of the co-conveners of...
Michael Russell SNP
I have heard David Martin’s view on the matter. In retrospect, I can understand why people think that. I have to say, there was no intention—
Mike Rumbles LD
No intention!
Michael Russell SNP
I am trying to make a point that can be believed or not believed. There was no intention to say that the citizens assembly would be driving forward any agend...
Adam Tomkins Con
Will Michael Russell take an intervention?
Michael Russell SNP
I really must make progress—I am sorry. I think that I will not be given much extra time by the Presiding Officer. During a period when the claims of compet...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I seem to have upset Mike Russell. He is so upset that he frequently takes to social media to plead with me to talk to him. I know that it is difficult to be...
Adam Tomkins Con
Does Mr Rennie know that, earlier this afternoon, at portfolio question time, Conservative members invited the cabinet secretary, Michael Russell, to distanc...
Willie Rennie LD
I find that astonishing and difficult to believe.
Michael Russell SNP
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. It is important that the words that I used, which will be recorded in the Official Report, are quoted. On no occasion...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Both points have been made. The Official Report can be checked later today and any member who wishes to do so can take appropriate steps.
Willie Rennie LD
Joanna Cherry seems to have created a degree of excitement, not just in the courts today, but in this chamber. I am grateful to her for giving us such clarit...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Mr Rennie, will you move your amendment?
Willie Rennie LD
In all the excitement, I forgot to do that. I move amendment S5M-18778.1, to leave out from “welcomes” to end and insert: “regrets that the first opportuni...
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I turn my attention first to the Liberal Democrat amendment, which has just been so movingly moved by Mr Rennie. We on the Conservative benches strongly agre...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I accept much of what Adam Tomkins has said about drug deaths. I was first involved in difficulties in that area in the early 1960s. Would it be helpful if a...
Adam Tomkins Con
The answer to the first part of that question is, yes, it would be helpful. It should happen, in my view, and I know what the consequences of that are. The ...
Adam Tomkins Con
I am not sure whether the cabinet secretary can shed any light on that. I will be happy to give way to him if he can.
Michael Russell SNP
Transparency will be a key issue for the citizens assembly. It will be committed to publishing its costs in full. It will do so at the appropriate moment, wh...
Adam Tomkins Con
I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for that response, although he did not shed any light on the question of cost and simply said that it will be made tra...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
In opening the debate on behalf of Scottish Labour, I state our support for the principles of the citizens assembly for Scotland. I also welcome the appointm...
Mike Rumbles LD
This is about motivations. The First Minister has said that we are facing a climate emergency. Liberal Democrats made the point that the citizens assembly wo...
Alex Rowley Lab
I will certainly come on to that point. I have some experience in deliberative democracy. While I was leader of Fife Council, we held one of the first citiz...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I welcome the motion that has been brought to the chamber for debate today. The Greens have long expressed support for deliberative democracy in a range of f...