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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 10 September 2019

10 Sep 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Immigration Policy (Universities and Scientific Research)

Only the Scottish Conservative party could say that there is no chaos in Westminster; it is there for everyone to see within the member’s divided party.

I doubt that any member in this chamber has ever experienced anything like what we are seeing in Westminster. While members of the new Prime Minister’s Cabinet recline on the benches of the House of Commons and shut down Parliament, staff, students and researchers at our institutions are crying out in concern for their livelihoods and futures. Meanwhile, I am met with a revolving door of UK counterparts—I am now on my third, despite having been in office for only one year, and I have not even got to speak to my third UK counterpart. They nod in agreement with what the sector says, but their ability to implement decisions appears to be being throttled by those above their pay grade.

In contrast, I hope that a different example from that which we see in Westminster will be set here today—one of respect, trust and consensus. What is needed, and what the sector needs, is a calm and open consideration of the facts. The fact is that Brexit, and the UK Government’s view on what its future migration policy should look like, will be like a wrecking ball to our institutions in Scotland.

In fact, as I am sure many members are aware, the damage has already taken shape. Last week, at a dinner in Glasgow with the Government of Lower Saxony, I was told that its universities are seeing an unprecedented increase in the number of German academics who are based in the UK applying for positions back home. Similarly, the Russell group has reported an on-going decline in the number of European Union academics working at UK institutions. There are a lot of anecdotes about, and evidence of, that loss of talent, and although it might be a trickle now it could become a tsunami if we leave the EU and lose access to freedom of movement.

As has been said many times, scientists and researchers rely on freedom of movement to allow them to move quickly and easily between projects. Some international academics come to Scotland for only a few months at a time to help to deliver vital life-changing research, before moving on; others stay for a lot longer. Anything that puts up barriers to that flow of people and ideas—for example, a restrictive UK Government migration environment—would make the UK a far less attractive place for globally mobile researchers.

That is intrinsically linked with issues to do with research funding. Along with the movement of staff and ideas, the movement of funding in the form of international competitive research grants is the bedrock of the modern scientific research sector that we are lucky enough to have in Scotland.

Research income leveraged through international funding streams is a mark of excellence and can often attract research income from elsewhere. The third sector, for example, invests significant amounts of money in Scottish research, and one of the world’s largest research funding charities has raised concerns about the impact of Brexit on its potential investments.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-18767, in the name of Richard Lochhead, on the impact of the United Kingdom Government’s planned immigrat...
The Minister for Further Education, Higher Education and Science (Richard Lochhead) SNP
Presiding Officer, “A ‘no-deal’ exit from the EU is the worst option for science.” Those are not my words but those of the president of the UK Royal Societ...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con
It is a bit rich for the minister to come to the chamber and say that my party is pushing for a no-deal Brexit when not a single Scottish National Party MP v...
Richard Lochhead SNP
Only the Scottish Conservative party could say that there is no chaos in Westminster; it is there for everyone to see within the member’s divided party. I d...
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
What impact will not having access to that experience from across the EU have on the ordinary undergraduate student in Scottish universities?
Richard Lochhead SNP
That could be devastating for our universities and institutions, given that students from the EU and beyond may find Scotland and the wider UK much less attr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
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Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con
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Richard Lyle (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) SNP
Oh, hip, hip, hooray!
Oliver Mundell Con
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Gillian Martin SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Oliver Mundell Con
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Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Richard Lochhead SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Oliver Mundell Con
I will take an intervention from the minister first.
Richard Lochhead SNP
In the light of the consensus that the member is fostering, will he say whether he agrees that no deal is the worst possible outcome for Scotland’s further a...
Oliver Mundell Con
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The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
Let me try to steer Mr Mundell away from the politics of all this. I am interested in his line of argument: he is making a strong argument—with which I agree...
Oliver Mundell Con
I welcome John Swinney’s point. We have seen a reset in approach from the new Government under a new Prime Minister. The issue is about balancing different i...
Stuart McMillan SNP
On the issue of consensus, what deal that would have consensus across all the parties that are represented in the House of Commons does Mr Mundell want to se...
Oliver Mundell Con
We have already seen something that could have been that deal—the withdrawal agreement. I voted to leave, and I might have looked for more in that deal about...
Gillian Martin SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Oliver Mundell Con
I think that I am in my last minute.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Yes you are. It has been very good of Mr Mundell to take lots of interventions, but the member is now winding up.
Oliver Mundell Con
SNP members, despite all their protests, have had the opportunity to deliver a Brexit deal to protect our universities, businesses and farmers the length and...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to speak in today’s debate on a key issue for our universities, research community and economy. It is unwelcome, and indeed ridicul...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
It is timely that, as the only Parliament in the UK that is allowed to sit today, we hold the Westminster Government to account for its immigration policy an...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
I am very pleased to say that opening for the Liberal Democrats today, in her first contribution to a debate in our Parliament, is the member of the Scottish...
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I am delighted to be here to make my first speech in Parliament. First, though, I would like to pay tribute to my predecessor, ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We now move to the open debate, with speeches of six minutes, please. We are a bit tight for time, so will members please take care with the length of their ...