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Committee

Rural Economy and Connectivity Committee 26 June 2019

26 Jun 2019 · S5 · Rural Economy and Connectivity Committee
Item of business
Transport (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Amendment 268A would ensure that only someone who is employed by a public body could issue a parking enforcement notice, and that private companies could not be contracted by local authorities to issue parking enforcement notices. Amendment 268A would prevent private companies from issuing tickets with no authority to do so. I want to set out why Murdo Fraser’s amendments give me cause for concern, and why I lodged probing amendment 268A. First, I thank Murdo Fraser for his thorough explanation: that is the first time that I have heard the reasoning behind his amendments. Committee members are only too familiar with the fact that there is no requirement at stage 2 to submit a notice alongside amendments, so members can only read the amendments and try to understand what the member who has lodged them is trying to achieve. Murdo Fraser’s amendments would give to private companies wide-ranging powers that have not been tested, which causes me concern. My constituents in Glasgow have had no say about what I think would be quite sweeping powers. The amendments would introduce new keeper liabilities—apparently, because Scotland has fallen behind England in this area. I think that that idea should be examined. In many cases, Scotland does things differently—wheel clamping, for example, is not legal in Scotland, whereas it has taken England some time to legislate on that. Falling behind England in such matters does not give me cause for concern. As Murdo Fraser rightly said—I agree with him whole-heartedly on this point—the private car park industry has been notorious for giving drivers record-breaking parking tickets. In the first quarter of 2018, 1.5 million sets of vehicle records from the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency were applied for. Murdo Fraser mentioned the work that CAS has done. It noted that in 2015 the highest number of hits on its website were in relation to this issue. A parking notice is issued every five seconds, and the DVLA is on course to share 6.5 million records with private firms. I ask committee members to consider whether they are satisfied that a code of conduct would be enough when the industry has, for the most part, a poor reputation among our constituents. Murdo Fraser said that only 25 per cent of fines are paid. Perhaps that is because people feel that they are being fined unfairly, which has been my experience with constituents. Car parks are owned by a variety of companies, including pension funds and finance companies. The cases that I know best are those involving town centre car parks, for which the rights have been sold to companies. Many supermarkets have done that. A lot of the cases that I get involve people who parked in a supermarket car park, went a short time over the period for which they were allowed to stay, and were issued with a parking notice. There is a remedy for the issue that Murdo Fraser outlined of people parking in spaces in housing estates, where they are not supposed to park. People have written to me about that issue. Members might be familiar with the Dundee case in which Ms Mackie, who was a persistent offender, parked in a residents’ parking bay that was for permit holders only. There is a remedy because, at the end of the day, there is a contractual obligation that can be enforced in court. As Murdo Fraser said, that is a civil matter.

In the same item of business

The Convener Con
Item 3 is the continuation of our consideration of stage 2 amendments to the Transport (Scotland) Bill. I welcome the Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Infra...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
Excuse me, I do not think that I have been here as a committee substitute before, have I?
The Convener Con
You have indeed.
Christine Grahame SNP
That is all right; I do not have to declare any interests.
The Convener Con
We remember you, even if you do not remember us. Laughter.
Christine Grahame SNP
I will take that in the way in which it was intended.
The Convener Con
You can make a declaration, if you want to do so. I will explain the procedure briefly for anyone who is watching. There will be one debate on each group of...
The Convener Con
The first group of amendments is on the recovery of unpaid parking charges. Amendment 260, in the name of Murdo Fraser, is grouped with amendments 261 to 268...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
This group is a package of amendments that seek to introduce the concept of keeper liability in relation to charges for parking on private land. I appreciate...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Amendment 268A would ensure that only someone who is employed by a public body could issue a parking enforcement notice, and that private companies could not...
Stewart Stevenson SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Pauline McNeill Lab
Yeah—she said with grace. Laughter.
The Convener Con
That did not sound very excited.
Pauline McNeill Lab
I know from 15 years of experience what taking an intervention from Stewart Stevenson might lead to. Laughter.
The Convener Con
I am sure that he is going to come in with some pearl of wisdom.
Stewart Stevenson SNP
It is not a pearl of wisdom; it is a genuine question. In essence, Pauline McNeill proposes that only public agents could recover what are private debts. The...
Pauline McNeill Lab
That is a fair question. I emphasise that amendment 268A is a probing amendment. I suggest that there should be some public oversight of the private industry...
The Convener Con
A few members have indicated that they wish to speak. I ask Murdo Fraser, when he sums up, to clarify the position in relation to the code of conduct and whe...
Mike Rumbles (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
From what Murdo Fraser has said, I understand that he has put a great deal of work into his amendments. However, the committee has been blindsided by them. I...
The Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Infrastructure and Connectivity (Michael Matheson) SNP
We are not proposing to change civil law to criminal law.
Mike Rumbles LD
You would put the liability into statute.
Michael Matheson SNP
A civil law matter will not be changed to a criminal law matter. We are not doing that at all—it would remain within civil law.
The Convener Con
Thank you for that intervention. I am sure that you will have a chance to explain your position in detail later.
Mike Rumbles LD
This is exactly what I mean. The committee has not had the chance to look at the matter: we do not know anything about it. The committee’s job is to examine ...
Murdo Fraser Con
Mr Rumbles was on the committee last year, so he might remember that it debated a legislative consent memorandum to Sir Greg Knight’s Parking (Code of Practi...
Mike Rumbles LD
I thank Murdo Fraser for that intervention. For the record, I note that there was a very brief debate on a legislative consent motion. We are considering the...
Christine Grahame SNP
I support what is proposed in the amendments. I do not want to patronise Murdo Fraser by praising the clarity of his explanation. First, such parking is a m...
Mike Rumbles LD
I am puzzled as to why Christine Grahame thinks that it is fair, right and proper that someone who is not responsible for driving the vehicle should suddenly...
Christine Grahame SNP
The amendments would exempt stolen and hired cars. The keeper has given leave to someone to drive that car and they have responsibility for that vehicle. At ...
Pauline McNeill Lab
Will the member give way?