Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 20 June 2019
20 Jun 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Gender Recognition Act 2004 Review
On the final point, I reiterate my point that the Government has absolutely no intention of making any changes to the Equality Act 2010 or the exemptions that are in place, or of asking the UK Government to do so.
It is important for me to stress once again the point that I made in my statement that gender recognition has been in place since 2005. That is because the UK Parliament passed a bill because of the necessity to ensure that there is legal provision for people to change their gender. That has been in place since 2005, so what we are debating here is not new. It is the reform of that process.
I also want to reassure Joan McAlpine on one particular point that she brought up. People cannot take advantage of current protections in the Gender Recognition Act 2004 to hide a criminal offence. Individuals can obtain disclosure certificates for employment purposes, but previous names must be provided as part of that process. If a trans person is applying for a disclosure certificate, they can apply using their present name and gender, but they have to give previous names; those must be sent to Disclosure Scotland. It is a criminal offence to make a false statement in relation to an application for a disclosure certificate.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani)
SNP
The next item of business is a statement by Shirley-Anne Somerville, to update Parliament on the Scottish Government’s review of the Gender Recognition Act 2...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Security and Older People (Shirley-Anne Somerville)
SNP
In my statement, I will set out the background to the Gender Recognition Act 2004 and the case for its reform. I will consider the relationship between gende...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
The cabinet secretary will now take questions on the issues raised in her statement. I will allow up to 30 minutes for questions. I ask any member who wishes...
Annie Wells (Glasgow) (Con)
Con
I thank the cabinet secretary for early sight of her statement. I am very pleased that we have had an update from the Scottish Government on the issue. I sp...
Shirley-Anne Somerville
SNP
I thank Annie Wells for her questions and the tone in which we are having the conversation. I hope that, as we move forward, I will be having a conversation ...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
I thank the cabinet secretary for advance sight of the statement. It is a comprehensive statement, and I welcome the fact that we have had one. As a member w...
Shirley-Anne Somerville
SNP
I recognise the history that Scottish Labour has on equality issues in general, including on this one. Parliament, too, can be exceptionally proud of the wor...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Before we move to open questions, I note that the front-bench questions have taken a long time. I know that many members want to ask questions, and I ask mem...
Angela Constance (Almond Valley) (SNP)
SNP
In her balanced and thoughtful statement, the cabinet secretary reminded us that all parties that are represented in the chamber made manifesto commitments t...
Shirley-Anne Somerville
SNP
The Government has an absolute determination to ensure that we have equality for all groups in our community, which includes the trans community, whose membe...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
I am grateful for sight of an advance copy of the cabinet secretary’s statement. I welcome the fact that it contains a commitment to the principle of reformi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Please conclude, Mr Harvie.
Patrick Harvie
Green
—in good time to be completed before the end of this session of the Parliament?
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Before I call Shirley-Anne Somerville to respond, I point out that lots of members wish to ask questions. If everyone insists on making statements before the...
Shirley-Anne Somerville
SNP
I fully appreciate that some people will be frustrated by my proposals and will feel that the pace of reform has not been fast enough for them. I want to see...
Jenny Gilruth (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP)
SNP
The Equality Act 2010 and the Gender Recognition Act 2004 have been in place for more than a decade. The 2010 act provides a clear exemption for transgender ...
Shirley-Anne Somerville
SNP
Presiding Officer, with your permission I will repeat what I said earlier on that. It is an exceptionally important point that, quite rightly, has raised a g...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
LD
Scottish Liberal Democrats asked for reform of the Gender Recognition Act 2004 in the previous parliamentary session, because it was harming trans people the...
Shirley-Anne Somerville
SNP
No, I do not think that those aspects can be done concurrently. It would not be advisable. If I did not express it clearly enough when I answered Patrick Ha...
Joan McAlpine (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I welcome the commitment to a full equality impact assessment, replacing the schools guidance and reviewing the statistics, which I hope will include crime s...
Shirley-Anne Somerville
SNP
On the final point, I reiterate my point that the Government has absolutely no intention of making any changes to the Equality Act 2010 or the exemptions tha...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
We are being asked by many whether we support trans rights or women’s rights. I think that we can do both, and it is right and proper that every one of us in...
Shirley-Anne Somerville
SNP
That goes back to one of the areas that I raised in my statement. In general, people have to have trust and transparency around policies and how they have be...
Richard Lyle (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP)
SNP
There is no doubt that learning about gender recognition has been a journey of discovery for many. However, I have realised that the facts of what reform is ...
Shirley-Anne Somerville
SNP
I agree with the member. It is a complex area. It raises emotions. In many areas, but perhaps in this area in particular, social media is not always the most...
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Over the past few months, my trans constituents have had their very existence questioned. They have faced hateful rhetoric and have been told that they are p...
Shirley-Anne Somerville
SNP
I agree with the sentiment behind Kezia Dugdale’s question—all that they want is a birth certificate that reflects who they are. As I said during my statemen...
Gail Ross (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
SNP
I, too, would like to thank the cabinet secretary for her very measured statement. I have been particularly concerned about the damage that the current deba...
Shirley-Anne Somerville
SNP
That leads on well from the discussion that Kezia Dugdale and I have just had about the impact that the current debate is having on the trans community. I ve...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con)
Con
I strongly support the position that the cabinet secretary has set out and her tone in doing so, but does she agree that other people have a legitimate right...