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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 12 June 2019

12 Jun 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Census (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3

I am grateful to my parliamentary colleagues here today for another useful debate on these sensitive matters. I am pleased that stakeholders, the committee and Parliament have supported the key principles of the Census (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill throughout the bill process.

It is right that the questions should be voluntary. It is also critical that all census respondents know that voluntary means just that and there will be no penalty for not answering the questions. From the beginning of the process, we have made it clear that the purpose of the bill is to remove criminal penalty from these questions and make them voluntary rather than the standard compulsory.

Work is in hand by National Records of Scotland to ensure that that is communicated, which includes embedding the words “This question is voluntary” in the text of the new questions, so that census respondents are not required to cross-refer to separate instructions to find that information. That was done with the religion question in the 2011 census. After discussions at stage 2, the registrar general also confirmed that he will make it clear in the covering message on the front of the census questionnaire, as well as in the supporting guidance. I am confident that the messaging that the questions are voluntary will be clear.

Stakeholders have been involved throughout the planning for 2021 to ensure that National Records of Scotland will ask the right questions in the right way. National Records of Scotland carried out a public consultation between October 2015 and January 2016 to understand what information users need from the 2021 census. It is worth stressing that the purpose of the census is to identify needs and to ensure that those needs can be met. We have had a number of good contributions about why we need more information, particularly about sexual orientation and transgender issues. A number of the contributors to the debate made that point, including Claire Baker and Jamie Greene and others. Work has been done directly with a wide range of stakeholders, involving thousands of people from across Scottish society.

The bill process has highlighted that we must continue to ensure the identity of all individuals and groups that have an interest in census matters and ensure that new relationships are developed between them and National Records of Scotland.

It is also critical that stakeholders continue to be kept informed and, where possible, are able to influence plans up until census day.

Pauline McNeill raised the issue of households. I replied to her after stage 1 with information, but I will also copy to her the information that we gave to the committee, particularly about the sensitivities for households—especially individuals who may not have come out to the rest of the family but who want to take part in the census—and how work will be done to respect confidentiality and be discreet.

The census bill has been the first direct involvement in Scotland’s 2021 census for the Scottish Parliament and it has clearly stimulated debate and interest in the census as we move forward to the subordinate legislation process. We have the critical requirement that a census order and census regulations have to be in force before we can have a census in 2021, which will involve extensive work by the committee. I appreciate the work that it has put in to date, but a considerable amount of work on those orders and regulations will be required. Work is already being progressed with the Culture, Tourism, Europe and External Affairs Committee to ensure that it has the necessary information this year to thoroughly and appropriately consider these matters.

Passing the census bill will mean that we can ask questions on sexual orientation and transgender status and history on a voluntary basis, but Parliament will still have to agree that the questions will be asked in the 2021 census. I detect from the contributions today that there is a willingness and appreciation that that should be the case. Other questions and other census matters will be considered by the committee and wider Parliament as we progress through the process. The questions are clearly a critical part of the census.

National Records of Scotland is currently planning the whole operation for a successful digital census in 2021. There are only 648 days to go until census day, but the responsibility and influence of Parliament does not end at census day. In my opening speech, I mentioned that National Records of Scotland plans to process and output census data. The registrar general will prepare reports on the census returns, including on data content and operations, and lay them before the Scottish Parliament at the appropriate time after the census.

In addition to those specific reports, the registrar general will prepare a comprehensive report on the overall census operation. It will include an evaluation of the new questions that will be asked in 2021, including the voluntary ones on sexual orientation and transgender status and history, and will also be brought to Parliament for consideration. As members can see, National Records of Scotland has a thorough process in place to collect, process and output census data and also to ensure appropriate consideration and evaluation of those matters.

One issue that was raised in the committee report and in contributions from Ross Greer and Claire Baker is whether the sex question will be on the basis of lived sex. That issue is not the purpose of this bill and, indeed, I agree with Jamie Greene and his approach. The focus of his remarks was specifically on the bill’s content, reflecting the fact that considering the actual wording will come next, as part of the process.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a stage 3 debate on motion S5M-17645, in the name of Fiona Hyslop, on the Census (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill. Before the debate...
The Cabinet Secretary for Culture, Tourism and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop) SNP
I am very pleased to open this stage 3 debate on the Census (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill. The deliberations of the Culture, Tourism, Europe and External Affai...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
What is the public consultation process? How will members of the public be able to engage in forming and stress testing the new questions?
Fiona Hyslop SNP
There are two elements: users’ needs and the need for population data. The consultation commenced years and years ago. The questions have been developed over...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank fellow members of the Culture, Tourism, Europe and External Affairs Committee, and the staff who work with the committee, for getting the bill to whe...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased that we are debating the Census (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill at stage 3, as part of the preparation for the 2021 census. As the opening speaker f...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
Given the volume of amendments to some other recent bills, it has been a while since we have reached a stage 3 debate and been in the position of saying esse...
Claire Baker Lab
I do not know whether Mr Greer noticed but, in the evidence that we received, National Records of Scotland said that, if there was a third option, it would j...
Ross Greer Green
That is why I said that the option “could” allow us to collect that valuable data. That is a choice that could be made. It is a policy choice for National Re...
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
As others have observantly noted, the bill is somewhat short, with only three sections, so I am more confident than usual that everyone in the debate will ge...
Joan McAlpine (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Before I start, I associate myself with the remarks of Claire Baker, Jamie Greene and Tavish Scott in urging a civilised debate on these matters and in conde...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Annie Wells, to be followed by Stuart McMillan. I encourage members to keep to four minutes. 16:21
Annie Wells (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I thank all the organisations that kindly sent briefings ahead of the debate. It is only right that the census reflects the views of modern-day society, whic...
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP
The bill, which is largely technical in nature, has caused a stir in terms of public debate. The bill simply seeks to amend the enabling powers in the 1920 a...
Tom Arthur (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) SNP
Given some of the issues that we have touched on in the debate so far, it would be easier either to speak only for 30 seconds or for 30 minutes. I thank the ...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I join other members in thanking the committee for its hard work in reaching this point and making things relatively straightforward for the rest of us. I as...
Fiona Hyslop SNP
Had the member been listening to the debate—I noticed that she was in conversation with her colleague for the first three quarters of an hour—she would know ...
Pauline McNeill Lab
Oh, well—that will teach me. I apologise to the cabinet secretary if she thought I was being flippant. I did not mean to be. I recognise the importance of t...
Fiona Hyslop SNP
Will the member take an intervention? Oh, she has finished.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Perhaps the cabinet secretary can add that point to her concluding comments. 16:38
Annabelle Ewing (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to speak in this stage 3 debate on the Census (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill. I, too, thank the committee clerks and the Scottish Parliament inform...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We move to the closing speeches. 16:42
Claire Baker Lab
The debate has been interesting and has inspired conversations, as well as speeches in the chamber. While a debate is the final stage of the passing of a bil...
Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I am pleased to close for the Scottish Conservatives in the stage 3 debate on the bill. It has been interesting to hear the contributions from across the cha...
Fiona Hyslop SNP
I am grateful to my parliamentary colleagues here today for another useful debate on these sensitive matters. I am pleased that stakeholders, the committee a...
Claire Baker Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Fiona Hyslop SNP
I want to make my point here. I have already communicated to the committee that it is really important that people will have confidence in using the census d...