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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 12 June 2019

12 Jun 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Census (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
McMillan, Stuart SNP Greenock and Inverclyde Watch on SPTV

The bill, which is largely technical in nature, has caused a stir in terms of public debate. The bill simply seeks to amend the enabling powers in the 1920 act and, as has been stated by the cabinet secretary, a period of informal engagement with the committee regarding the questions will begin after stage 3.

My focus today is solely on the contents of the bill and what it is intended to do, but I will touch on one other aspect. I welcome the passage of the bill through Parliament and recognise how important it is to help keep the census up to date with society. During the passage of the bill, I realised that I was the only committee member who was on the committee that scrutinised the order for the 2011 census 10 years ago. I was struck by how much society has changed in those 10 years. Society is more open and tolerant, but there is still a long way to go. The bill, which will allow the census to deal with today’s society and beyond, is therefore important.

Ross Greer touched on the aspect of the census that concerns the voluntary question on transgender status, and talked about the issue of the NHS using its own data. Section 17 of the policy memorandum touches on the issue of the lack of data around people’s transgender status. I can understand why the NHS will want to use its own data. First, other data is not there at the moment; and, secondly, when the census takes place in 2021, it will record the data at that time, and things will change hugely in the ensuing 10 years.

During the stage 1 debate on 28 February, I quoted paragraphs 11 and 75 of the committee’s report. Paragraph 11 says:

“The Committee agrees that there has been considerable social change with regard to issues concerning sexual orientation since 2011.”

Paragraph 75 contains this quotation from the cabinet secretary:

“The census does not lead public opinion; the census has to reflect society as it is just now and ask questions that maximise the response rate so that the data can be used.”

Those statements were absolutely correct at that time; they are now; and they will be in future.

The bill recognises the importance and sensitivity of the new questions and it tries to mitigate concerns about intrusion into private life by placing the questions on a voluntary basis. The main policy aim of the bill is not to facilitate the asking of questions about transgender matters and sexual orientation but to make answering those questions voluntary, just as the religion question was placed on a voluntary basis by the Census (Amendment) (Scotland) Act 2000. The other census questions are compulsory.

I am genuinely pleased that this technical bill will be passed today, and that we will have a census that is fit for 2021—a census that can be delivered, that people can fill out, from which data can be gathered and that people can trust and have faith in. As colleagues have indicated, there will be plenty of time to discuss the gender recognition issues.

I echo the calls from colleagues across the chamber for people to carry out these discussions with respect and in a calm and professional manner. People’s views will differ, and it is important that all views are heard.

16:30  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a stage 3 debate on motion S5M-17645, in the name of Fiona Hyslop, on the Census (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill. Before the debate...
The Cabinet Secretary for Culture, Tourism and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop) SNP
I am very pleased to open this stage 3 debate on the Census (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill. The deliberations of the Culture, Tourism, Europe and External Affai...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
What is the public consultation process? How will members of the public be able to engage in forming and stress testing the new questions?
Fiona Hyslop SNP
There are two elements: users’ needs and the need for population data. The consultation commenced years and years ago. The questions have been developed over...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank fellow members of the Culture, Tourism, Europe and External Affairs Committee, and the staff who work with the committee, for getting the bill to whe...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased that we are debating the Census (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill at stage 3, as part of the preparation for the 2021 census. As the opening speaker f...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
Given the volume of amendments to some other recent bills, it has been a while since we have reached a stage 3 debate and been in the position of saying esse...
Claire Baker Lab
I do not know whether Mr Greer noticed but, in the evidence that we received, National Records of Scotland said that, if there was a third option, it would j...
Ross Greer Green
That is why I said that the option “could” allow us to collect that valuable data. That is a choice that could be made. It is a policy choice for National Re...
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
As others have observantly noted, the bill is somewhat short, with only three sections, so I am more confident than usual that everyone in the debate will ge...
Joan McAlpine (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Before I start, I associate myself with the remarks of Claire Baker, Jamie Greene and Tavish Scott in urging a civilised debate on these matters and in conde...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Annie Wells, to be followed by Stuart McMillan. I encourage members to keep to four minutes. 16:21
Annie Wells (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I thank all the organisations that kindly sent briefings ahead of the debate. It is only right that the census reflects the views of modern-day society, whic...
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP
The bill, which is largely technical in nature, has caused a stir in terms of public debate. The bill simply seeks to amend the enabling powers in the 1920 a...
Tom Arthur (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) SNP
Given some of the issues that we have touched on in the debate so far, it would be easier either to speak only for 30 seconds or for 30 minutes. I thank the ...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I join other members in thanking the committee for its hard work in reaching this point and making things relatively straightforward for the rest of us. I as...
Fiona Hyslop SNP
Had the member been listening to the debate—I noticed that she was in conversation with her colleague for the first three quarters of an hour—she would know ...
Pauline McNeill Lab
Oh, well—that will teach me. I apologise to the cabinet secretary if she thought I was being flippant. I did not mean to be. I recognise the importance of t...
Fiona Hyslop SNP
Will the member take an intervention? Oh, she has finished.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Perhaps the cabinet secretary can add that point to her concluding comments. 16:38
Annabelle Ewing (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to speak in this stage 3 debate on the Census (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill. I, too, thank the committee clerks and the Scottish Parliament inform...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We move to the closing speeches. 16:42
Claire Baker Lab
The debate has been interesting and has inspired conversations, as well as speeches in the chamber. While a debate is the final stage of the passing of a bil...
Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I am pleased to close for the Scottish Conservatives in the stage 3 debate on the bill. It has been interesting to hear the contributions from across the cha...
Fiona Hyslop SNP
I am grateful to my parliamentary colleagues here today for another useful debate on these sensitive matters. I am pleased that stakeholders, the committee a...
Claire Baker Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Fiona Hyslop SNP
I want to make my point here. I have already communicated to the committee that it is really important that people will have confidence in using the census d...