Holyrood, made browsable

Hansard

Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

129
Current MSPs
415
MSPs ever elected
14
Parties on record
2,095,827
Hansard contributions
1999–2026
Coverage span
Official Report

Search Hansard contributions

Clear
Showing 0 of 2,095,827 contributions in session S6, 12 May 2026 – 11 Jun 2026. Latest 30 days: 3,357. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 10 Jun 2026.

No contributions match those filters.

← Back to list
Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 04 June 2019

04 Jun 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Whole-life Custody Sentences

As I have made abundantly clear, I do not agree.

In sentencing, a judge will set a punishment part, which is the minimum term that must be spent in prison. After that time, a person can be considered for release by the Parole Board. That decision is based on an assessment of risk, which should be explained. Even if a person who has been given a life sentence is released into the community, they will be on licence for the rest of their life and can be recalled to prison in the event of a breach.

Under those provisions, World’s End murderer Angus Sinclair was given a sentence that would have prevented him from even seeking parole until he was 106, as we heard. As Lord Matthews explained—with little room for ambiguity, let me say to Mr Kerr—that was intended to “make matters easier for” the Parole Board.

Let us not forget that, under the terms of the European convention on human rights, prisoners need to be sentenced in a way that allows them a realistic prospect of release, even if, for reasons to do with on-going risk, that release does not happen.

The same approach applies south of the border. In England, whole-life orders are compatible with the ECHR only because the justice secretary has a statutory duty to review such cases and to exercise the power of release for life prisoners in such a way as to ensure compatibility with the convention. Moreover, the secretary of state’s decisions on possible release are subject to review by the domestic courts, which are also bound to act within convention rights:

“the High Court would have the power to directly order the release of the prisoner, if it considered this to be necessary in order to comply with Article 3”.

However much Liam Kerr wishes to portray the approach as lock-’em-up-and-throw-away-the-key justice, the facts say otherwise.

Of course, some individuals who are guilty of the most serious, violent crimes and who continue to present an unacceptable risk to their victims and/or the wider public, will need to remain in prison.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-17503, in the name of Liam Kerr, on whole-life custody sentences. 14:22
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Imagine you are sitting in the High Court in Glasgow. You have spent weeks or perhaps even months sitting through a trial for the brutal, calculated and remo...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
Liam Kerr Con
I will.
John Finnie Green
I am grateful to the member. I know that he does not like the Parole Board for Scotland, but does he have no confidence at all in its judgment in these matters?
Liam Kerr Con
I thank Mr Finnie for the intervention. On the contrary, the Parole Board does a very difficult job. The point that I am making, if he will allow me to devel...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Liam Kerr Con
I ask Mr Johnson to be very quick.
Daniel Johnson Lab
Is that actually correct? Do judges not have the ability to request an assessment for an order for lifelong restriction, which would do exactly that, if the ...
Liam Kerr Con
There is an awful lot of misunderstanding in the debate about whether judges in Scotland can hand down a life sentence. It is very disappointing to see such ...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Liam Kerr Con
If it is brief, Mr Findlay.
Neil Findlay Lab
Why does Mr Kerr not cut to the chase and tell us the reality? What he probably wants is to bring back the death penalty.
Liam Kerr Con
I do not thank Mr Findlay for wasting my time with his intervention. Of course I do not think that, Mr Findlay; just sit down. Some people accept that we do...
The Minister for Community Safety (Ash Denham) SNP
One of the most difficult and important decisions that anyone working in our criminal justice system can face is that which is faced by High Court judges who...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
The proposed bill is a meaningless stunt. The Tories argue that it would be another tool in the sentencing box for judges, but, if that is an attempt to make...
Liam Kerr Con
I do not doubt that Pauline McNeill’s point will be picked up in the closing speeches. We are not compromising the independence of the judiciary at all—not o...
Pauline McNeill Lab
I will deal with the member’s point when I outline what I think would be the right way forward for guidelines and sentencing. The proposed bill also states ...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call John Finnie to open for the Green Party. 14:41
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
Liam Kerr was with me at this morning’s Justice Committee meeting, in which we discussed the presumption against short sentences. The committee is deliberati...
Liam Kerr Con
To answer those points, I can tell John Finnie that the proposal is not a stunt, because I have been working on it for the guts of the past two years. A stun...
John Finnie Green
Of course, I acknowledge the work that goes into a member’s bill. Again, Liam Kerr had the good grace to say that someone being sentenced for 37 years has be...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Is it Mr Finnie’s view that the vast prison population will always be subject to rehabilitation and will never present a danger to the public? We are targeti...
John Finnie Green
Mrs Mitchell identifies a group of individuals—fortunately, it is a small group—for whom provisions are already in place: they are unlikely to be given parol...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Liam McArthur to open for the Liberal Democrats. 14:47
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
Even after Liam Kerr’s performance this afternoon, I firmly believe that, when it comes to justice, his instincts are broadly liberal. I see him more in the ...
Liam Kerr Con
I do not recognise Mr McArthur’s characterisation. The motion, which I have made very short and to the point, is clear: Scotland’s judges should have the pow...
Liam McArthur LD
As I have made abundantly clear, I do not agree. In sentencing, a judge will set a punishment part, which is the minimum term that must be spent in prison. ...
Liam Kerr Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Liam McArthur LD
No, thank you. We also need to keep under review the sentencing options that are available to our courts, although the process for doing so is the one that ...