Hansard

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA

The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-17503, in the name of Liam Kerr, on whole-life custody sentences. 14:22

Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con

Imagine you are sitting in the High Court in Glasgow. You have spent weeks or perhaps even months sitting through a trial for the brutal, calculated and remo...

John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green

Will the member take an intervention on that point?

Liam Kerr Con

I will.

John Finnie Green

I am grateful to the member. I know that he does not like the Parole Board for Scotland, but does he have no confidence at all in its judgment in these matters?

Liam Kerr Con

I thank Mr Finnie for the intervention. On the contrary, the Parole Board does a very difficult job. The point that I am making, if he will allow me to devel...

Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab

Will the member take an intervention?

Liam Kerr Con

I ask Mr Johnson to be very quick.

Daniel Johnson Lab

Is that actually correct? Do judges not have the ability to request an assessment for an order for lifelong restriction, which would do exactly that, if the ...

Liam Kerr Con

There is an awful lot of misunderstanding in the debate about whether judges in Scotland can hand down a life sentence. It is very disappointing to see such ...

Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab

Will the member take an intervention?

Liam Kerr Con

If it is brief, Mr Findlay.

Neil Findlay Lab

Why does Mr Kerr not cut to the chase and tell us the reality? What he probably wants is to bring back the death penalty.

Liam Kerr Con

I do not thank Mr Findlay for wasting my time with his intervention. Of course I do not think that, Mr Findlay; just sit down. Some people accept that we do...

The Minister for Community Safety (Ash Denham) SNP

One of the most difficult and important decisions that anyone working in our criminal justice system can face is that which is faced by High Court judges who...

Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab

The proposed bill is a meaningless stunt. The Tories argue that it would be another tool in the sentencing box for judges, but, if that is an attempt to make...

Liam Kerr Con

I do not doubt that Pauline McNeill’s point will be picked up in the closing speeches. We are not compromising the independence of the judiciary at all—not o...

Pauline McNeill Lab

I will deal with the member’s point when I outline what I think would be the right way forward for guidelines and sentencing. The proposed bill also states ...

The Presiding Officer NPA

I call John Finnie to open for the Green Party. 14:41

John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green

Liam Kerr was with me at this morning’s Justice Committee meeting, in which we discussed the presumption against short sentences. The committee is deliberati...

Liam Kerr Con

To answer those points, I can tell John Finnie that the proposal is not a stunt, because I have been working on it for the guts of the past two years. A stun...

John Finnie Green

Of course, I acknowledge the work that goes into a member’s bill. Again, Liam Kerr had the good grace to say that someone being sentenced for 37 years has be...

Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con

Is it Mr Finnie’s view that the vast prison population will always be subject to rehabilitation and will never present a danger to the public? We are targeti...

John Finnie Green

Mrs Mitchell identifies a group of individuals—fortunately, it is a small group—for whom provisions are already in place: they are unlikely to be given parol...

The Presiding Officer NPA

I call Liam McArthur to open for the Liberal Democrats. 14:47

Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD

Even after Liam Kerr’s performance this afternoon, I firmly believe that, when it comes to justice, his instincts are broadly liberal. I see him more in the ...

Liam Kerr Con

I do not recognise Mr McArthur’s characterisation. The motion, which I have made very short and to the point, is clear: Scotland’s judges should have the pow...

Liam McArthur LD

As I have made abundantly clear, I do not agree. In sentencing, a judge will set a punishment part, which is the minimum term that must be spent in prison. ...

Liam Kerr Con

Will the member take an intervention?

Liam McArthur LD

No, thank you. We also need to keep under review the sentencing options that are available to our courts, although the process for doing so is the one that ...