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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 15 May 2019

15 May 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Education
Smith, Liz Con Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

The 2015 OECD report that examined Scottish schools said some very interesting things, and it is in that context that I will address Tavish Scott’s motion, which the Scottish Conservatives will support. The report made plain just why investment in education is important, why Scotland has so much potential and strength in its underlying ethos—that is, why there are so many good things in Scottish education—but also why, as yet, we are not able to fully harness that potential.

I do not doubt for a minute the very genuine desire across this chamber—that, of course, includes the cabinet secretary—to deliver the highest standards for our young people, but it seems abundantly clear that several key things are getting in the way of the SNP’s approach to fulfilling that promise.

The OECD report acknowledges that, when educational reform is introduced, things cannot be expected to turn around overnight, hence why it would not have been sensible to evaluate CFE in the first few years of implementation. However, the report goes on to say that the mid-term evaluation of CFE is crucial and the OECD worries that Scotland is not sufficiently data rich—for exactly the reasons that Iain Gray set out—when it comes to the measurement of progress. Of course, that makes it all the more surprising that the Scottish Government wanted to remove Scotland from other helpful international data. We cannot go on hoping that things will turn around when we know that there are fundamental flaws with accuracy of measurement.

It is surely urgent to comprehensively review CFE—not its principles, but its structures. If that does not happen soon, its whole raison d’être will be called into question and, as Tavish Scott rightly said, nobody wants that.

The OECD makes the point strongly that

“A priority area for evaluation is to follow closely how CfE is being implemented on the ground”.

I think that it is very fair to say that the inquires led by the Education and Skills Committee on attainment and subject choice have thrown up considerable concern from the ground about the implementation of CFE.

I will give two examples. First, in the debate about P1 testing, considerable concern was expressed about whether the purpose of that testing was clear and whether it was formative or summative. The cabinet secretary seemed to muddy the waters on the issue when he gave evidence to the committee on 20 February. It is that lack of clarity and unwillingness to respect some of Parliament’s concerns that led to further confusion over the P1 tests.

Secondly, on subject choice, the real problem that has been flagged up is the complete disconnect between the broad general education and the senior phase. It seems that each has been designed by a different agency, which has resulted in a lack of accountability. To some extent, I think that schools and local authorities have become confused about their roles. The cabinet secretary said in the previous debate on subject choice that there is a tension between CFE allowing schools autonomy and the adherence to national standards. I think that he has a point, but they are not and should not be incompatible when it comes to the curriculum.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-17280, in the name of Tavish Scott, on education. 15:49
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
We are debating education on the 20th anniversary of the Scottish Parliament, after 12 years of Scottish National Party Government and four years on from the...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
Let me begin by setting out the areas on which I agree with Tavish Scott. I agree that education is the central purpose of this Government. It is the purpose...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
John Swinney SNP
I ask Mr Gray to forgive me. We also see funding being targeted directly to individual schools through pupil equity funding. I hear the criticisms that Mr S...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
John Swinney SNP
I had better give way to Mr Gray first.
Iain Gray Lab
Mr Swinney must know that Universities Scotland tells us that its funding is 11 per cent lower than it was just a few years ago. How can what he has just sai...
John Swinney SNP
It is true because rising levels of total resource are going into the university sector. I will now give way to Mr Mundell.
Oliver Mundell Con
I hear what the cabinet secretary says about pupil equity funding. Does he recognise that there is still a problem for small schools in my constituency, many...
John Swinney SNP
PEF reaches 95 per cent of schools in Scotland. I appreciate that there are challenges around the distribution mechanism, and my officials are engaged with l...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
John Swinney SNP
If Johann Lamont will forgive me, I will give way to her during my closing remarks. Those positive destinations are at a record level because of the appropr...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
It is worth going back to what the First Minister said, when she started in office, about education being a priority. Key interventions were mentioned in her...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
The 2015 OECD report that examined Scottish schools said some very interesting things, and it is in that context that I will address Tavish Scott’s motion, w...
John Swinney SNP
Liz Smith alights on a point that I simply find difficult to comprehend about the Conservative’s stance. The Conservatives have long argued—I respect their p...
Liz Smith Con
Yes, I absolutely will, cabinet secretary. That is the same question that you asked in the previous debate, which I answered. I fundamentally believe in a co...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
Like colleagues, I am grateful to Tavish Scott for bringing a debate on education before Parliament this afternoon. It is a continuing frustration for many ...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
Four years ago, like Liz Smith, I was a member of this Parliament’s Education and Culture Committee. Since then, the committee has gained in skills what, in ...
Jenny Gilruth (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) SNP
I was going to start by saying that, perhaps for the first time in his life, Tavish Scott is right. However, I found his speech rather depressing. Nonetheles...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I will in a second. Although all teachers should have a baseline understanding of ASN from either their postgraduate or BEd qualifications, all young people...
Oliver Mundell Con
Will Ms Gilruth clarify when the issue of additional support needs was suddenly bumped up the Government’s agenda? Why has it taken until today for it to rec...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I do not accept Oliver Mundell’s point. The Education and Skills Committee has already carried out an inquiry into the issue, so I am not sure why he thinks ...
Alison Harris (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Here we are again. We are only two weeks into the month of May, and this is the second debate on education to have been led by Opposition parties in those 14...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Alison Harris Con
No. I am sorry. I have only four minutes. That is approximately a 75 per cent drop, which is incredible. However, when faced with those facts, the SNP rever...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
Taking modern languages is no longer compulsory to S4.
Alison Harris Con
I am sorry—could you please be quiet, Ms Gilruth? I am not taking interjections from you. We have heard the First Minister refuse to answer questions on sub...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to participate in this debate. Anybody who knows me knows that, at my very core, I want to build consensus. I want people to agree ...