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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 14 May 2019

14 May 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
The Place Principle

I think the difference is that I am a pessimist and Stuart McMillan is an optimist. I fully relate to what he said.

Something that we all—in both the Scottish Government and local authorities—have to look at is the role of the third sector. I am pleased that members from across the parties have mentioned projects in their local areas, because the place principle cannot be a matter simply for health boards, local authorities and other large organisations. Third sector organisations have a vital role to play, as they are often the ones who know what is going on and what services need to be provided in the local community.

I am concerned that the City of Edinburgh Council and other local authorities often find the third sector budget an easy one to cut. When cuts have to be made, councils often go after third sector budgets. That approach might be easy to justify in the short term, but the long-term effect on communities is devastating.

The largest implementation of the place principle in Scotland is happening through integration joint boards, which try to bring together health and social care. I think that all members support the approach, which is breaking down silos, and I was interested to hear the cabinet secretary say that the approach must be democratic, accountable and transparent. I think that we all agree that those principles should underpin any service that is provided, but I have some concerns about integration joint boards in that regard. We all want better services, and recent decisions in the Lothians that have resulted in groups that had been funded for a long time having their funding completely cut without much notice are not the way forward.

I welcome the debate and how things are moving, but we must keep in mind whether the organisations that we are talking about are democratic, accountable and transparent to the people who live locally and who need their services.

16:27  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-17265, in the name of Aileen Campbell, on adopting the place principle. 15:28
The Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Local Government (Aileen Campbell) SNP
I am delighted to open this debate on the place principle. Fundamentally, it is an approach that seeks to ensure that we, as policy makers, make better decis...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Back in the real world, communities are experiencing cuts to youth work and cuts to environmental services, roads are in a poorer condition, places are more ...
Aileen Campbell SNP
Back in the real world, we have the collaboration and co-operation of COSLA and a host of different partners—not forgetting, most importantly, communities th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Before we hear Mr Rowley’s intervention, I say to members that there is time for interventions—you will get your time back.
Alex Rowley Lab
I do not know whether the cabinet secretary is trying to rewrite the Christie report, because one of its key messages was about preventative spend: it said t...
Aileen Campbell SNP
I mentioned the need for a “preventative” approach. I am certainly not seeking to rewrite the Christie report. I totally subscribe to the Christie principles...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
This morning, I read the weekly briefing from Unison Scotland, my trade union, and I noted that, on this debate, it says the following: “The place principle...
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP
Is Mr Rowley suggesting that potholes have happened only under austerity?
Alex Rowley Lab
I am saying that we need look only at the evidence of the cuts to council budgets over the past decade to see the impact that austerity is having and, theref...
Aileen Campbell SNP
The debate is about trying to make better use of the resources and public funds that we have in order to make good on the Christie principles and on the noti...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Before you respond, Mr Rowley, I remind the cabinet secretary not to use the term “you” and to speak through the chair, please.
Aileen Campbell SNP
I apologise, Presiding Officer.
Alex Rowley Lab
The Labour manifesto “For the Many Not the Few” sets out a plan for £70 billion-odd of investment coming to Scotland over the next decade. That is the kind o...
Michelle Ballantyne (South Scotland) (Con) Con
In 2012, when I was appointed to my local council’s planning committee, I was given a publication entitled “Placemaking and design” which, I was informed, co...
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
I thank the Scottish Government for bringing the topic to debate this afternoon. The Greens are happy to support the motion, and we support the place princip...
Neil Findlay Lab
How many of the people who come to Mr Wightman’s surgeries, or email or write to him, talk about the cuts to local government? Is it a significant part of hi...
Andy Wightman Green
Yes. People come to me talking about the pressures faced by local government and the cuts that are taking place across the country. I agree—it is in a bad pl...
James Dornan (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) SNP
It is a pleasure to speak in the debate, which, judging by the contributions so far, will be fairly positive. As every member will agree, Scotland’s communi...
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
I, too, welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate. Our happiness and wellbeing depend to a great extent on the place in which we live. We should have p...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
I will highlight excellent community-led work that is taking place in my constituency. It has been a privilege to support such efforts in the communities tha...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I am sure that many of us love the places that we live in; we are connected to them and to the people who live around us. Across Scotland, communities have o...
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP
I welcome this debate and the dialogue on the place principle. Listening to some colleagues in the chamber, one would think that life was perfect before the ...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
We all agree that the place principle is a good one but that it probably needs more work in practice. As a councillor in Edinburgh, I was very aware of the s...
Stuart McMillan SNP
If Mr Balfour reads the Official Report, he will see that I said that there is still a journey to be undertaken but I welcome the progress that has been made.
Jeremy Balfour Con
I think the difference is that I am a pessimist and Stuart McMillan is an optimist. I fully relate to what he said. Something that we all—in both the Scot...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
There is good news from East Ayrshire, at least, which I hope might bring a smile to the faces of some of the gloomsters in the chamber. When I read the bri...
Angela Constance (Almond Valley) (SNP) SNP
In advance of today’s debate, I took the time to read the Scottish Government’s three-page factsheet that explains the place principle. The nub of it is that...
Alex Rowley Lab
I have made it clear that there is nothing in the Government’s motion that I could disagree with. However, sometimes there is a sense that the Parliament is ...
Willie Coffey SNP
I invite Alex Rowley and his colleagues to come down to East Ayrshire and see the process working in practice. He would be very welcome to come and see it.