Committee
Health and Sport Committee 07 May 2019
07 May 2019 · S5 · Health and Sport Committee
Item of business
Human Tissue (Authorisation) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
The amendments would remove a protection from the bill. The bill as introduced includes an exemption to ensure that deemed authorisation does not apply to excepted body parts and includes provision for regulations to be made to specify what is included in the excepted body parts category. Those regulations will be subject to affirmative procedure as well as to consultation. The intention, as outlined in the Scottish Government’s consultation, is for deemed authorisation to apply only to those organs and tissues that are commonly transplanted. They are, in other words, the organs and tissues that most people might commonly understand as being able to be donated and include the kidney, heart, lungs and liver. The intention is for body parts aside from those commonly transplanted ones—in other words, the excepted body parts—to be listed in regulations and, as a result, to be exempt from deemed authorisation. That approach has been taken elsewhere; indeed, there are regulations as part of the Welsh legislation that set out that list. As well as that exemption, deemed authorisation will apply only to transplantation, not to research—again, that comes back to a point that Mr Balfour made—and no body parts can be used for research purposes without explicit authorisation. Amendments 9 and 10 seek to remove the category of excepted body parts and instead set out protections only for parts of the body that contain “reproductive cells” or which are “to be used for reproductive purposes”. The effect would be that those parts of the body that it is intended would be excepted could be removed and transplanted under deemed authorisation. I point out to Mr Balfour that I am very much a supporter of organ donation and, indeed, have opted in to make it clear that I am content for all of my body parts to be used after my death, if I die in such circumstances that they can be used. However, the bill does not assume that that would be covered by deemed authorisation, if the organ in question is not one of those accepted as commonly transplanted. There is a slight difference in that respect, and I think that it highlights how the organ donor register remains important in this legislation. As I have said, there is a list in Wales, and it includes body parts such as the face and hands. I do not think that it is commonly understood by the public that such parts of the body would be donated and transplanted, and it is appropriate that we provide safeguards to make the limitations of deemed authorisation clear to the public. I understand Mr Balfour’s concerns with regard to reproductive cells and body parts to which deemed authorisation for transplantation does not apply. As I have said, the Government’s intention is to ensure that only material that the public commonly understand to be routinely donated should be part of deemed authorisation, and I do not think that the material that the amendments relate to would fall within that. The list in Wales includes the types of material that the amendments relate to, such as the ovaries, uterus, penis and testicles. Subject to consultation and the Parliament’s view, it is expected that the list of excepted body parts here will be very similar. I suggest that the excepted body parts regulations are the vehicle to limit the parameters of what can be donated under deemed authorisation. On that basis, I urge Jeremy Balfour to withdraw amendment 5 and not to move the other amendments in the group. Mr Balfour asked how reproductive cells will be covered under the bill. The procurement, storage and use of gametes, or reproductive cells, are dealt with under the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act 1990 and require a Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority licence. That is completely separate from the 2006 act and the bill.
In the same item of business
The Convener
Lab
Item 3 is stage 2 consideration of the Human Tissue (Authorisation) (Scotland) Bill. I welcome the Minister for Public Health, Sport and Wellbeing, Joe FitzP...
The Minister for Public Health, Sport and Wellbeing (Joe FitzPatrick)
SNP
Good morning.
The Convener
Lab
Good morning. The minister is accompanied by Sharon Grant of the Scottish Government bill team; Jackie Pantony and Claire Montgomery from the Scottish Gover...
The Convener
Lab
The first group of amendments to the bill covers information and awareness. Amendment 4, in the name of Jeremy Balfour, is grouped with amendments 56, 57, 7,...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con)
Con
Thank you, convener, and good morning to the committee and the minister. I start by saying that this is a very helpful bill, which I think has all-party supp...
The Convener
Lab
I have lodged two amendments in the group, following discussions, particularly with the Law Society of Scotland, on the most appropriate format for addressin...
David Stewart (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Lab
I thank the minister for meeting me to discuss the generalities of the amendments. Like Jeremy Balfour, the Labour Party and I are very supportive of the bil...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
LD
I welcome Jeremy Balfour to the committee and thank him for moving amendment 4. Although I support the intent of amendment 4, I agree with David Stewart that...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Good morning, everyone. I thank Jeremy Balfour for lodging his amendments. As I am a former liver transplant nurse who has also taken part in kidney and pan...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con)
Con
Good morning. I welcome my colleague Jeremy Balfour. I suppose that my question is more for the minister, because it relates to the guidance that will be a...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
SNP
I thank Jeremy Balfour for his amendment, but I agree with David Stewart and Alex Cole-Hamilton about the convener’s amendment. Once a year is better than on...
Joe FitzPatrick
SNP
Agreement to amendment 56 would mean that, as part of their duties in respect of transplantation and donation, the Scottish ministers should have a campaign ...
The Convener
Lab
Thank you, minister. I ask Jeremy Balfour to wind up and to press or seek to withdraw his amendment 4.
Jeremy Balfour
Con
I thank members for the helpful debate that we have had. The comments by the minister were particularly helpful. I offer a slight caveat to the minister’s vi...
The Convener
Lab
We will come back to amendments 7 and 8 in due course. Amendment 4, by agreement, withdrawn. Amendment 56 moved—Lewis Macdonald—and agreed to. Section 2,...
The Convener
Lab
The next group is on excepted body parts. Amendment 5, in the name of Jeremy Balfour, is grouped with amendment 6, amendments 9 to 17 and amendments 19 to 23...
Jeremy Balfour
Con
Amendment 5 would ensure that tissue is not used to create reproductive cells in research. It highlights the fact that while everyone believes that the bill ...
Emma Harper
SNP
I am interested in this, because from discussions that we have had, it seems that the issue is transplantation of not just solid organs but tissue. It is qui...
The Convener
Lab
As no one else wishes to contribute, I invite the minister to respond to this group of amendments.
Joe FitzPatrick
SNP
The amendments would remove a protection from the bill. The bill as introduced includes an exemption to ensure that deemed authorisation does not apply to ex...
The Convener
Lab
I ask Jeremy Balfour to wind up and say whether he wishes to press or to seek to withdraw amendment 5.
Jeremy Balfour
Con
I have nothing to add, convener. I seek to withdraw amendment 5. Amendment 5, by agreement, withdrawn.
The Convener
Lab
The next group relates to the establishment and maintenance of the register. Amendment 24, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 25 to 33.
Joe FitzPatrick
SNP
I have lodged amendments 24 to 33 following further consideration of how the provisions of section 3 on disclosure of information by the register organisatio...
The Convener
Lab
The question is, that amendment 57 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
Lab
There will be a division. For Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Macdonald, Lewis (North East Scotland) (Lab) St...
The Convener
Lab
The result of the division is: For 5, Against 4, Abstentions 0. Amendment 57 agreed to. Section 3, as amended, agreed to. Section 4 agreed to. Section ...
The Convener
Lab
The next group is on how authorisation, declaration or withdrawal is to be made. Amendment 34, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 36, 40...
Joe FitzPatrick
SNP
I will speak to all the amendments in the group. They seek to enable a person to verbally withdraw a decision that they have given to the register organisati...
The Convener
Lab
Thank you. I invite other members to comment.