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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 23 April 2019

23 Apr 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Social Security and In-work Poverty

I thank everyone for their work on this important report. We are debating the issue of in-work poverty at the same time as we are seeing record-breaking employment levels in Scotland and, indeed, across the UK. In January, we learned that the UK employment rate has risen to more than 75 per cent—the highest rate since comparable estimates began—while, for the first time in decades, we have a record low unemployment rate in Scotland. It has been referred to as the jobs miracle, and it is evidence of the attractiveness that the UK market continues to hold for business.

Creating jobs and ensuring that people are in employment are the basis of making work pay. Other policies and principles that have been adopted by the UK Conservative Government are equally important. The commitment to increase the personal allowance to £12,500 a year earlier than expected builds on the progress that has already been made, whereby 1.74 million of the lowest-paid workers have been taken out of paying income tax altogether. The national living wage, which has continually increased over the years, had helped some 300,000 workers out of low pay by 2017. Those policies should be welcomed across the chamber, as they provide longer-term solutions that allow people to keep more of their hard-earned money while developing skills and experience that can lead to happier and more fulfilled lives.

However, when people who are in work are still experiencing poverty, we must recognise that as a problem that needs to be tackled. Human lives, in which money can play an important part, are naturally complicated, so we should be careful about blaming any single set of circumstances or Government policy for in-work poverty. Relative income depends greatly on a list of factors including education, the performance of the economy and high living costs such as for housing and utilities. The powers to tackle those issues fall within both reserved and devolved responsibilities and require action from both the UK and Scottish Governments.

Universal credit is, of course, one policy that is scrutinised in detail throughout the report. Its intention, which is to simplify the welfare system and to design it around trying to help recipients to budget in the same way as they would with a monthly salary, should be welcomed. The UK Government is taking the time to correct things and has made a number of improvements, including raising work allowances by £1,000 a year and offering a more generous taper rate. Improving the welfare system in those ways will ensure that it fulfils the role that it was designed for, which is to support progression into work.

The sort of scrutiny that the committee carries out into social security, including its report on in-work poverty, is needed at this critical time for welfare reform to ensure that we get it right at Westminster and in Scotland as we take on greater powers. However, in understanding in-work poverty, we cannot simply pay lip service to certain factors. In tackling the problems, we need to adopt a holistic approach. Responding to in-work poverty requires us to think about why less money is coming into households and more is going out and about how that situation can change.

In this session of Parliament, the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee has looked at the performance of the Scottish economy—in which levels of gross domestic product growth are marginal, productivity is low and wages are stagnant. Our productivity performance has been stagnating for a number of years, and we are 20 per cent below our target levels of productivity. In a report into in-work poverty, the Institute for Fiscal Studies has said that the key to sustaining higher hourly wages is higher productivity, which could address the problem of in-work poverty. However, there is much work to do if we are to reach the levels of productivity that are achieved by other OECD countries, which bring higher wages.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a Social Security Committee debate on motion S5M-16957, in the name of Bob Doris, on social security and in-work poverty. 14:21
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
As the convener of the Parliament’s Social Security Committee, I am pleased to open the debate on the committee’s report “Social Security and In-Work Poverty...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Security and Older People (Shirley-Anne Somerville) SNP
I start by thanking the Social Security Committee for bringing this important matter to debate today and for its hard work during the inquiry. I welcomed the...
Michelle Ballantyne (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I begin by thanking the committee clerks and all those who gave evidence to the inquiry. Although I dissented from a number of points and conclusions during...
Bob Doris SNP
Michelle Ballantyne gave a really interesting quote about winners and losers, if you like, with regard to the new system. Does she agree that, in our report,...
Michelle Ballantyne Con
The convener asks an interesting question and has an interesting use of language. I understood that the committee agreed that it would not use the term “winn...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Will the member taken an intervention?
Michelle Ballantyne Con
No; I need to make progress. Part of the challenge was that there was an overlap as the committee held its inquiry, with a number of announcements and chan...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Like my colleagues on the Social Security Committee, I am grateful to see our report come to the chamber. Once again, we are forced to consider the catastrop...
Michelle Ballantyne Con
Will Mark Griffin say clearly whether he believes that the legacy benefits were better for working people who were trying to get back to work—whether or not ...
Mark Griffin Lab
I am about to come on to that. When Michelle Ballantyne was speaking, the committee convener made an intervention about how vulnerable people would be affect...
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green) Green
I, too, thank all who gave evidence in writing and in person to the committee and I thank the clerks and advisers who helped to prepare the report. Poverty ...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I, too, commend the committee’s work on this really important subject. When I was growing up and learning about economics, I always thought that there was a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
We now move to the open debate. Speeches should be six minutes. However, I have a bit of time in hand and I am happy to give extra time for interventions and...
Keith Brown (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) SNP
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak today about in-work poverty, an issue that is of particular importance to many of our constituents, and also about...
Jamie Halcro Johnston Con
The IPPR noted in its evidence that in-work poverty cannot be divorced from the economy. The member is a former economy secretary; does he take any responsib...
Keith Brown SNP
Indeed I did, and one of the things that we did to alleviate in-work poverty was to support the national minimum wage, which the member’s party has never sup...
Jamie Halcro Johnston (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I welcome the opportunity to discuss the Social Security Committee’s report on in-work poverty. Last week, the Office for National Statistics released figure...
Dr Alasdair Allan (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) SNP
The member—quite rightly—mentions the problems associated with debt. Does he feel that people waiting five weeks for the initial payment of a benefit to whic...
Jamie Halcro Johnston Con
As I have mentioned and as I will come on to again, a number of areas cause problems and that is one that has been looked at. For those on the lowest income...
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
Will the member take an intervention?
Jamie Halcro Johnston Con
I am afraid that I do not have time. Within the mix, this Parliament has a great many levers that can have a positive impact on in-work poverty. Unfortunate...
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) SNP
I thank the Social Security Committee for its work on this important report. I was a member of the Welfare Reform Committee in the previous session of Parlia...
Elaine Smith (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Did the member, like me, receive the briefing from Citizens Advice Scotland, which works every day with clients who are detrimentally affected by universal c...
Clare Adamson SNP
I would certainly encourage them to read the briefing and to listen to the people who are affected by the appalling legislative decisions of the Conservative...
Elaine Smith (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am not a member of the Social Security Committee, but I thank it for its work in preparing the report. Despite what the Tories claim, there is no doubt tha...
Tom Arthur (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) SNP
I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to this debate. I commend the Social Security Committee on what is a worthwhile, considered and timely report...
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
I thank everyone for their work on this important report. We are debating the issue of in-work poverty at the same time as we are seeing record-breaking empl...
Tom Arthur SNP
I am listening to the member’s remarks with interest. Does he recognise the argument that increased wages can drive up productivity by necessitating that fir...
Gordon Lindhurst Con
All these things are, of course, interlinked. It is not a simple matter of one leading to the other; there is a complex interplay between such factors, which...