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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 23 April 2019

23 Apr 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Social Security and In-work Poverty
Griffin, Mark Lab Central Scotland Watch on SPTV

I am about to come on to that. When Michelle Ballantyne was speaking, the committee convener made an intervention about how vulnerable people would be affected by universal credit. She claimed that we are not yet clear about who will be worse off, or not. However, we have figures for that, and I would have expected Michelle Ballantyne to know what the figures are. Lone parents and disabled households without housing costs will be £1,940 and £1,220 worse off every single year. I would have expected Tory members to know about the impact that universal credit is having and will continue to have on vulnerable working people.

In my Central Scotland region, 28,000 people have moved on to universal credit since the roll-out started in October 2017. They are suffering rent arrears, which have quadrupled; they are having to pay back £11 million in advances at a rate of 40 per cent; and they are facing a brutal conditionality system that forces them to find more work.

Constituents who have been in touch with my office recently have talked about just how aggressive and pernicious UC really is. One constituent saw their tax rebate—for income that they earned last year, on which they were unfairly taxed—swallowed up as “income”, and their UC payments were cut. Another constituent had their UC payments cut and money clawed back because the DWP had failed to take account of their student loan payments. The person had informed their work coach and put the information on their log—as they are advised to do—six months ago.

Our report looks specifically at the social security system, but it is hard to ignore the fact that Brexit—which is another mess of the Tories’ making—will have a devastating effect on those on low incomes. We might have stepped back from a devastating no-deal Brexit, but the risks of price rises, falls in wages, lower employment and lower tax revenues will do nothing to stop pushing working people below the breadline. When we took evidence in the autumn, universal credit was one of the few things that cut through the Brexit fog.

The report rightly recognises that the budget made much-needed changes, but the 2015 cuts must be reversed in full. The Tory committee members agreed to that, but littered throughout the report is a trail of dissent and opposition that shows how unwilling the Tories are to accept the impact that universal credit is having on people across the country.

An important conclusion in the report is that social security is becoming a shared responsibility. It is almost a year to the day since the Parliament agreed to pass the Social Security (Scotland) Bill.

I have told members before that I was one of four children. My parents worked hard—my father as a welder and my mother as a bank clerk—to support the family that they chose to have. My dad was diagnosed with a serious heart condition at the age of 37 and could not carry on doing the work that he had done for 20 years. Who plans for such a situation when they start a family? Who plans for redundancy, career-ending illness or even death at 47? Where is the support network? Where is the state support that children depend on day in, day out when circumstances change beyond anyone’s comprehension?

We accept that we cannot mitigate the effect of every cut, but the refusal to act on the two-child limit and the rape clause is shameful. What is done can be called mitigation, but people must be assured that Holyrood will act and is better than the callous Tory Government. To be frank, Scots do not care what colour of Government provides the support.

The report is a starting point, but we now need change. Where we can, MSPs must act, too.

15:01  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a Social Security Committee debate on motion S5M-16957, in the name of Bob Doris, on social security and in-work poverty. 14:21
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
As the convener of the Parliament’s Social Security Committee, I am pleased to open the debate on the committee’s report “Social Security and In-Work Poverty...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Security and Older People (Shirley-Anne Somerville) SNP
I start by thanking the Social Security Committee for bringing this important matter to debate today and for its hard work during the inquiry. I welcomed the...
Michelle Ballantyne (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I begin by thanking the committee clerks and all those who gave evidence to the inquiry. Although I dissented from a number of points and conclusions during...
Bob Doris SNP
Michelle Ballantyne gave a really interesting quote about winners and losers, if you like, with regard to the new system. Does she agree that, in our report,...
Michelle Ballantyne Con
The convener asks an interesting question and has an interesting use of language. I understood that the committee agreed that it would not use the term “winn...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Will the member taken an intervention?
Michelle Ballantyne Con
No; I need to make progress. Part of the challenge was that there was an overlap as the committee held its inquiry, with a number of announcements and chan...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Like my colleagues on the Social Security Committee, I am grateful to see our report come to the chamber. Once again, we are forced to consider the catastrop...
Michelle Ballantyne Con
Will Mark Griffin say clearly whether he believes that the legacy benefits were better for working people who were trying to get back to work—whether or not ...
Mark Griffin Lab
I am about to come on to that. When Michelle Ballantyne was speaking, the committee convener made an intervention about how vulnerable people would be affect...
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green) Green
I, too, thank all who gave evidence in writing and in person to the committee and I thank the clerks and advisers who helped to prepare the report. Poverty ...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I, too, commend the committee’s work on this really important subject. When I was growing up and learning about economics, I always thought that there was a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
We now move to the open debate. Speeches should be six minutes. However, I have a bit of time in hand and I am happy to give extra time for interventions and...
Keith Brown (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) SNP
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak today about in-work poverty, an issue that is of particular importance to many of our constituents, and also about...
Jamie Halcro Johnston Con
The IPPR noted in its evidence that in-work poverty cannot be divorced from the economy. The member is a former economy secretary; does he take any responsib...
Keith Brown SNP
Indeed I did, and one of the things that we did to alleviate in-work poverty was to support the national minimum wage, which the member’s party has never sup...
Jamie Halcro Johnston (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I welcome the opportunity to discuss the Social Security Committee’s report on in-work poverty. Last week, the Office for National Statistics released figure...
Dr Alasdair Allan (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) SNP
The member—quite rightly—mentions the problems associated with debt. Does he feel that people waiting five weeks for the initial payment of a benefit to whic...
Jamie Halcro Johnston Con
As I have mentioned and as I will come on to again, a number of areas cause problems and that is one that has been looked at. For those on the lowest income...
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
Will the member take an intervention?
Jamie Halcro Johnston Con
I am afraid that I do not have time. Within the mix, this Parliament has a great many levers that can have a positive impact on in-work poverty. Unfortunate...
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) SNP
I thank the Social Security Committee for its work on this important report. I was a member of the Welfare Reform Committee in the previous session of Parlia...
Elaine Smith (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Did the member, like me, receive the briefing from Citizens Advice Scotland, which works every day with clients who are detrimentally affected by universal c...
Clare Adamson SNP
I would certainly encourage them to read the briefing and to listen to the people who are affected by the appalling legislative decisions of the Conservative...
Elaine Smith (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am not a member of the Social Security Committee, but I thank it for its work in preparing the report. Despite what the Tories claim, there is no doubt tha...
Tom Arthur (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) SNP
I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to this debate. I commend the Social Security Committee on what is a worthwhile, considered and timely report...
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
I thank everyone for their work on this important report. We are debating the issue of in-work poverty at the same time as we are seeing record-breaking empl...
Tom Arthur SNP
I am listening to the member’s remarks with interest. Does he recognise the argument that increased wages can drive up productivity by necessitating that fir...
Gordon Lindhurst Con
All these things are, of course, interlinked. It is not a simple matter of one leading to the other; there is a complex interplay between such factors, which...