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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 21 March 2019

21 Mar 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Land Reform

I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for this timely debate. As she noted, land reform is a difficult process to deal with. As the Government motion hints, an entrenched set of circumstances that have been brought about by a very long history. It is a history in which men who owned land and property had the exclusive right to sit in Parliament and make the laws that govern ownership of that land. They were men who ensured that primogeniture was abolished only in 1964; that, to this day, children have no legal right to inherit land in Scotland; and that a wide range of exemptions from tax apply to land and estates—exemptions that do not apply to other property owners. As other members have said, Parliament has taken important steps to reverse that entrenched system, but there remains a very long way to go.

I will define what I mean by land reform. I take the definition from the land reform review group that the Scottish Government set up, which reported in 2014. It defined land reform as

“measures that modify or change the arrangements governing the possession and use of land in Scotland in the public interest.”

That implies a wide range of measures dealing with all land—urban, rural, marine, public and private. It is about fiscal policy, succession law, planning, land tenure and many other areas of law and policy. It is not synonymous with community ownership.

Fundamentally, this is a debate about power—specifically, about how power is derived, defined, distributed and exercised. I therefore welcome the focus in yesterday’s Scottish Land Commission report, which talks about “the concentration of power”. I am reminded of Tony Benn’s famous five questions, which he would ask of people who purported to hold power. They are:

“what power do you have; where did you get it; in whose interests do you exercise it; to whom are you accountable; and, how can we get rid of you?”

and claimed that

“Anyone who cannot answer the last of those questions does not live in a democratic system.”—[Official Report, House of Commons, 16 Nov 1998; Vol 319, c 685.]

I think that that is a good test for Scotland’s system of land tenure.

The core challenge that Parliament faces is how to redistribute power over land in the public interest—in the interest of the many, not the few. In short, it is about how to democratise land. The Scottish Land Commission report is refreshingly clear, analytical and nuanced, and provides a frank assessment of the problem.

For too long, much of the land reform debate has been conducted in soundbites. I have indulged in a good deal of that myself, in an effort to be taken seriously and to attract attention. Easy slogans and simplistic analysis have too often taken the place of patient diagnosis.

I have long held the view that ownership, occupation and use of land are questions of power. As the Scottish Land Commission notes, power can be—and is—abused. It can, however, also be exercised with great responsibility and diligence. The report talks about monopolies and market power and of rent seeking as the “hallmark” of market power. It is important that it also distinguishes how power is exercised from how it is obtained, by recognising that although power can be exercised in damaging ways and in responsible ways, it is the very existence of that power that needs to change. The future of communities in Scotland should not rely on the arbitrary manner in which power is obtained through land markets or inheritance, or is exercised by way of land use.

My amendment would do two things. First, it would replace the term “community ownership” with “common ownership”. Common ownership includes community ownership but recognises that other forms of common ownership—including common good land, parish commons, land that is held by local councils and common grazings—“should be the norm”. I hope that members can agree that that more inclusive term is helpful and would do nothing to take away from the importance of community ownership. My amendment concludes by inviting Parliament not to agree the recommendations of the report but to endorse its findings. I hope that members can support that.

This Parliament began life by enacting a wide range of legislation—as Claudia Beamish noted—dealing with tenements, national parks, crofting community right to buy, the right to roam and feudal powers abolition. By 2007, it had lost its way on the topic. Momentum declined and little more was done until the land reform review group was established.

The Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2016 followed, which established the Scottish Land Commission. For some, the Scottish Land Commission was regarded as another tiresome quango. I was always very aware that land reform is difficult. The existing set-up is deep-seated and entrenched and the presence of an agency that is committed to study, analysis and advice on the topic is critical.

Opposition to change is vigorous and determined. The establishment of the Scottish Land Commission ensures that important elements of the debate are not forgotten, and it allows for detailed analysis to be conducted to inform public debate. Its latest report is a good example of that.

What we hear from the Conservative Party and the landed class is a master class in distraction. The idea that ownership of and power over land do not matter, and that, in a great clamour of whataboutery, we should look at how it is used, has been a common theme from politicians such as Mr Mountain, to whom I readily give way.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
I ask members to shift their seats quickly. The next item is a debate on motion S5M-16445, in the name of Roseanna Cunningham, on land reform in Scotland. 1...
The Cabinet Secretary for Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform (Roseanna Cunningham) SNP
Land reform is a subject that has been relevant to Scotland for several hundred years, and I have to say that it sometimes seems as though I have been talkin...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
Land ownership is totally unbalanced in Scotland. If we move towards the purchase of smaller amounts of land, how will we change the fact that 50 per cent of...
Roseanna Cunningham SNP
If Rhoda Grant listens to the rest of my speech, she will understand the direction of travel. We also want to reflect the importance of urban community owner...
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
Before I start, I refer members to my entry in the register of interests, which says that I am a partner in a farming partnership. I also own land. I hope t...
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
Mr Mountain says that we should not obsess over who owns land, and that it is how it is used and managed that matters. Why, then, is the landed class and ind...
Edward Mountain Con
I think that the people I employ are happy that I look after and manage my business in the way that I work it, as it gives them a job and creates prosperity ...
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Edward Mountain Con
I am going to make a bit of time. I will perhaps let the member intervene if there is an opportunity later. I want to look at some of the comments in the ...
Gillian Martin SNP
My point is not the one that I was going to make when I tried to intervene earlier. How would Edward Mountain react to another case that was mentioned in the...
Edward Mountain Con
I cannot look at an example without its being substantiated. That is the problem with the report. Ms Martin will be well aware that sometimes when people are...
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
It is timely that the Scottish Government has lodged the motion for debate today, because it gives us an opportunity to reflect on what has been achieved in ...
Finlay Carson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Claudia Beamish Lab
No—I am sorry. I have not got time. I have very few minutes. It is time for a powerful land regulator to examine whether existing ownership helps or hinders...
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for this timely debate. As she noted, land reform is a difficult process to deal with. As the Government motion hints,...
Edward Mountain Con
I hardly think that that is my “common theme”, Presiding Officer. To quote the Land Commission’s report, it gives a “Summary of Macro Themes Identified in t...
Andy Wightman Green
I confess that I have not read the report in enough detail to come to a conclusive view on that. I suspect that that might be a selective reading of what is ...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in this debate on land reform. It is still a source of pride for me that the Scottish Liberal Democrats put land r...
The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
We move on to the open debate. 15:50
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
Since the passing of the Land Reform (Scotland) Bill in 2003, we have had a chance to reflect on whether Scotland’s communities are thriving as a result. In ...
Edward Mountain Con
I remember reading that part of the report, which relates to a factor sitting at the front of a meeting and taking notes. One person found that intimidating....
Gillian Martin SNP
Unlike Edward Mountain, who seems to be dismissive of some people’s testimony, I have read the whole testimony—
Edward Mountain Con
It was one person.
Gillian Martin SNP
When one person comes to my constituency surgery and says that they have a problem with someone, I do not ask how many other people are affected or for proof...
Finlay Carson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Con
I am pleased to speak in this debate a week after I spoke in Andy Wightman’s members’ business debate on who owns Scotland. The subject of land reform in Sco...
Andy Wightman Green
The member expresses concern about the report’s title. Does he accept that there are issues associated with large-scale and concentrated land ownership in Sc...
Finlay Carson Con
Not at all. There are some issues, but the report should have been balanced and should have recognised that there are some benefits to be gained from large-s...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I welcome today’s debate on land reform in Scotland and agree with the cabinet secretary that land is one of Scotland’s most important assets. It is because ...
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
Land ownership has been contentious for centuries, but Scottish policy on land is now increasingly rooted in questions of fairness, equality and human rights...
John Scott (Ayr) (Con) Con
I declare an interest as a farmer and food producer, and as a member of NFU Scotland. I welcome the debate and the publication of the Scottish Land Commissi...