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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 21 March 2019

21 Mar 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Land Reform
Mountain, Edward Con Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV

I cannot look at an example without its being substantiated. That is the problem with the report. Ms Martin will be well aware that sometimes when people are trying to buy houses and put in offers that they think will work, it turns out that they do not. Such transactions happen in the countryside, in towns and in business everywhere. However, if she cares to give me an example, I will certainly look at it.

It seems to me that none of the reasons that we have been given in the examples that I have quoted supports the premise that landowners should always agree to demands to cover costs, and subsidise land sales and transfers on the basis that they must support everyone who lives on or near the land that they occupy.

Interestingly, it is not just private landowners who are blamed in the report. In several instances, charitable trusts are blamed, too. I wonder whether that argument is valid. How many landowners have been challenged for breaching their charitable objectives—which it is relatively easy to do, according to the Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator? I have not yet seen any case in which that has happened.

The report goes on to blame landowners for the way in which they use their land. Examples of new forestry being detrimental are an interesting case in point. However, I seem to remember that it is the Government that wants to see more forestry in Scotland—indeed, it will be needed if it is to reach its planting targets. I do not see how landowners can be blamed for creating more forestry if it is the Government’s policy to encourage it.

I am not so naive as to think that everything in the countryside is perfect. There will always be tensions in rural communities, whether they are surrounded by big landowners or small ones. That is why Scottish Conservatives support better engagement, but we need to be careful. Most farmers whom I know are delighted to engage with their neighbours, but it is unrealistic to expect those neighbours to dictate how farmers farm their land and manage their businesses. After all, farmers’ hands are guided by planning law, Government policy and regulations, and fiscal good sense. That is exactly as it should be.

I look forward to meeting representatives of the Scottish Land Commission to discuss the report and to seek more information on its findings and comments. However, at the moment, the report seems to have been written to support predetermined conclusions that do not reflect anything more than the misconceptions of some members of the commission.

I look forward to hearing the remainder of the debate. I hope that it will be based on informed comment, that we will not hear the heated and divisive arguments of old and that we will focus on the good progress that has been made since land reform and land management were last discussed in the Parliament. We have all agreed that the culture around how land should be managed has improved.

In 20 years, the Scottish Parliament has passed 19 acts containing land reform measures, including two land reform acts. Many of the changes brought about by the huge sweep of legislation are still bedding in and being tested, but I believe that progress is being made. There is clear evidence of good practice, where landowners and communities are working together and making mutually beneficial decisions on how to manage land.

By returning to the issue of land reform, Parliament is starting to lose sight of the progress that has been made. I urge all parties to move the debate forward and focus on the more pressing issues affecting rural communities and businesses, which do not base themselves on who owns what.

I move amendment S5M-16445.1, to leave out from “the value” to end and insert:

“; and welcomes the increasing diversity of land ownership, which includes charities as well as communities; acknowledges the close relationship between land ownership and land use; recognises the importance of the Scottish Land Fund in supporting community ownership, and believes that both communities and landowners work better together where both sides respect the needs of each other.”

15:30  
References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
I ask members to shift their seats quickly. The next item is a debate on motion S5M-16445, in the name of Roseanna Cunningham, on land reform in Scotland. 1...
The Cabinet Secretary for Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform (Roseanna Cunningham) SNP
Land reform is a subject that has been relevant to Scotland for several hundred years, and I have to say that it sometimes seems as though I have been talkin...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
Land ownership is totally unbalanced in Scotland. If we move towards the purchase of smaller amounts of land, how will we change the fact that 50 per cent of...
Roseanna Cunningham SNP
If Rhoda Grant listens to the rest of my speech, she will understand the direction of travel. We also want to reflect the importance of urban community owner...
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
Before I start, I refer members to my entry in the register of interests, which says that I am a partner in a farming partnership. I also own land. I hope t...
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
Mr Mountain says that we should not obsess over who owns land, and that it is how it is used and managed that matters. Why, then, is the landed class and ind...
Edward Mountain Con
I think that the people I employ are happy that I look after and manage my business in the way that I work it, as it gives them a job and creates prosperity ...
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Edward Mountain Con
I am going to make a bit of time. I will perhaps let the member intervene if there is an opportunity later. I want to look at some of the comments in the ...
Gillian Martin SNP
My point is not the one that I was going to make when I tried to intervene earlier. How would Edward Mountain react to another case that was mentioned in the...
Edward Mountain Con
I cannot look at an example without its being substantiated. That is the problem with the report. Ms Martin will be well aware that sometimes when people are...
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
It is timely that the Scottish Government has lodged the motion for debate today, because it gives us an opportunity to reflect on what has been achieved in ...
Finlay Carson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Claudia Beamish Lab
No—I am sorry. I have not got time. I have very few minutes. It is time for a powerful land regulator to examine whether existing ownership helps or hinders...
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for this timely debate. As she noted, land reform is a difficult process to deal with. As the Government motion hints,...
Edward Mountain Con
I hardly think that that is my “common theme”, Presiding Officer. To quote the Land Commission’s report, it gives a “Summary of Macro Themes Identified in t...
Andy Wightman Green
I confess that I have not read the report in enough detail to come to a conclusive view on that. I suspect that that might be a selective reading of what is ...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in this debate on land reform. It is still a source of pride for me that the Scottish Liberal Democrats put land r...
The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
We move on to the open debate. 15:50
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
Since the passing of the Land Reform (Scotland) Bill in 2003, we have had a chance to reflect on whether Scotland’s communities are thriving as a result. In ...
Edward Mountain Con
I remember reading that part of the report, which relates to a factor sitting at the front of a meeting and taking notes. One person found that intimidating....
Gillian Martin SNP
Unlike Edward Mountain, who seems to be dismissive of some people’s testimony, I have read the whole testimony—
Edward Mountain Con
It was one person.
Gillian Martin SNP
When one person comes to my constituency surgery and says that they have a problem with someone, I do not ask how many other people are affected or for proof...
Finlay Carson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Con
I am pleased to speak in this debate a week after I spoke in Andy Wightman’s members’ business debate on who owns Scotland. The subject of land reform in Sco...
Andy Wightman Green
The member expresses concern about the report’s title. Does he accept that there are issues associated with large-scale and concentrated land ownership in Sc...
Finlay Carson Con
Not at all. There are some issues, but the report should have been balanced and should have recognised that there are some benefits to be gained from large-s...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I welcome today’s debate on land reform in Scotland and agree with the cabinet secretary that land is one of Scotland’s most important assets. It is because ...
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
Land ownership has been contentious for centuries, but Scottish policy on land is now increasingly rooted in questions of fairness, equality and human rights...
John Scott (Ayr) (Con) Con
I declare an interest as a farmer and food producer, and as a member of NFU Scotland. I welcome the debate and the publication of the Scottish Land Commissi...