Committee
Finance and Constitution Committee 27 February 2019
27 Feb 2019 · S5 · Finance and Constitution Committee
Item of business
Common Frameworks
You say that politicians are the problem, as opposed to the civil service or Government structures. I assume that we would not want local government or stakeholders in civic Scotland to be treated in the way in which this institution and we as parliamentarians have been treated in the past and have objected to. Notwithstanding your saying that the priority for many stakeholders is the more fundamental issue of the chaos that we are in, what are your views on the roles of civic Scotland, the third sector and, in particular, local government in relation to informing and advising in a formal or more ad hoc way on common frameworks in the longer term?
In the same item of business
The Convener (Bruce Crawford)
SNP
Good morning, and welcome to the fifth meeting in 2019 of the Finance and Constitution Committee. We have received apologies from Neil Bibby. I remind member...
The Cabinet Secretary for Government Business and Constitutional Relations (Michael Russell)
SNP
Thank you for the invitation to be here today, convener. This morning, Gill Glass reminded me that I last spoke to members of the committee about common fram...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you, cabinet secretary. Judging from your voice, you are obviously carrying some sort of virus that is going round. I hope that you are okay through th...
Michael Russell
SNP
That has already happened. It started to happen in November, it accelerated in December, with the cancellation of the first meaningful vote, and it has conti...
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con)
Con
Good morning, cabinet secretary. You referred to the October 2017 framework for common frameworks, which was agreed by the JMC that month. That framework set...
Michael Russell
SNP
Yes, I can. I am not avoiding the question, but it is important, when referring to the framework, to mention principle 2 as well, which is: “Frameworks will...
Adam Tomkins
Con
Absolutely.
Michael Russell
SNP
If there was an issue between the two Governments here—which there might not be—I think that it would be the priority attached to those two issues—that is, w...
Adam Tomkins
Con
In relation to the specifics—although perhaps not in relation to the specifics of the manufacture of marmalade in Dundee—I understand that those discussions ...
Michael Russell
SNP
I want Ian Davidson to answer that, because he was at those sessions. As I indicated in my opening statement, any participation is without prejudice to the f...
Ian Davidson (Scottish Government)
We have had discussed this a bit in previous committee sessions. It is not that those areas in their totality are subject to internal market arrangements; ra...
Adam Tomkins
Con
Thank you. That is a very helpful answer, and I am grateful. I have two follow-up questions, which I hope will both be quick. The first is on the seven list...
Ian Davidson
They are a subset of the 24 areas that we prioritised. Beyond that, it is simply because there are established, well-working, functioning arrangements that h...
Adam Tomkins
Con
Secondly, what are the other issues? I presume that, if we were looking at this in 12 months’ time, the list of bullet points would be twice as long, or a bi...
Ian Davidson
Each of the 24 areas has had at least one stand-alone session, but the seven listed aspects have benefited from probably half a dozen stand-alone sessions, a...
Michael Russell
SNP
We have published the list of those 24 policy areas, so we are happy to have that list known.
The Convener
SNP
We have that already. I have a supplementary question. I am a simple person, so forgive me, but, given that those 12 areas and 24 other policy areas require ...
Michael Russell
SNP
That is an excellent question. I have no answer to it and nor does the UK Government. We have not seen statutory instruments that would give us the answer to...
Ian Davidson
I will add a couple of remarks. Members of the committee will be familiar with the no-deal legislative deficiencies work—the fixing regulations that have bee...
The Convener
SNP
That helps me to segue nicely into James Kelly, because he is interested in the areas where we cannot find agreement and there is dispute.
James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
When legislative consent for the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill was being sought from the Scottish Parliament, one of the issues was dispute resolution. Th...
Michael Russell
SNP
That is a good point. At present, we rely on the memorandum of understanding on devolution, which, in order to avoid disputes, emphasises good communication ...
James Kelly
Lab
You said earlier that this is the first time that you have come before the committee since November, and you are telling us that the issues around intergover...
Michael Russell
SNP
We and the Welsh Government—Northern Ireland, regrettably, does not have a functioning Administration—believe that intergovernmental relations require urgent...
Angela Constance (Almond Valley) (SNP)
SNP
I will pick up on the issues around intergovernmental relationships and the mechanisms that support that. I heard with interest what you said about the work ...
Michael Russell
SNP
To some extent, we have that independent structure anyway, because, officials were tasked with taking the matter forward by the JMC plenary in—was it last su...
Ian Davidson
The preceding December.
Michael Russell
SNP
More than a year ago, officials were tasked with taking the matter forward, but it has not happened. However, the problem lies not with the civil service but...
Angela Constance
SNP
You say that politicians are the problem, as opposed to the civil service or Government structures. I assume that we would not want local government or stake...
Michael Russell
SNP
I am absolutely open to that. If those frameworks are, in the end, to be established—we are speculating about that because who knows what will happen tomorro...