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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 18 December 2018

18 Dec 2018 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Damages (Investment Returns and Periodical Repayments) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Oh, my goodness! I cannot guarantee that my arguments will be any more elegant. Let me cut to the chase and focus on two areas: the discount rate and periodical payment orders.

I appreciate that, as other members have pointed out, the Scottish Government’s intention is that there should be neither overcompensation nor undercompensation for people to whom awards for personal injury are made. The principle of 100 per cent compensation is right—albeit that, in practice, that might be difficult to achieve absolutely.

Those who are responsible for paying out compensation—the defenders—believe that the Government is being overgenerous in its calculations of what people with an award would do with their lump sum. Their view is that the Government is too cautious in its assumptions and that investors should invest in equities, rather than fixed assets, thereby potentially maximising their return. However, that clearly carries a level of risk that might be considered to be too high, given the volatility of markets. On the other hand, those who represent pursuers say that any portfolio should be based on no-risk investment. Although I am minded to agree, I think that the Government’s approach is sufficiently low risk and cautious that it strikes the right balance between the two competing interests.

To be honest, most normal people with a personal injury award have probably never considered an investment portfolio before. They will naturally err on the side of caution, wanting to be sure that they have a secure return for their money and that the money will meet their needs well over their lifetime. However, I know that people will invest on the basis of expert financial advice. The Association of Personal Injury Lawyers welcomed the inclusion of standard adjustments in the bill, but noted that the amount for financial advice and tax was underestimated. It would be helpful for the minister to review that before stage 2.

The second area that I will cover is periodical payment orders. I welcome them, because many people with personal injury awards may have to live with the consequences of their injury for many years and will require varying degrees of long-term care. Periodical payment orders are a useful way of dealing with someone’s needs over their whole lifetime, and they are flexible enough to be reviewed and adjusted if a person’s condition deteriorates significantly, for example.

However, for some people with personal injury awards, the preference is to take a lump sum. That might be because they want to buy a house or adapt their existing home. It might be because they have no faith in the organisation making the payment, because it might have caused the injury in the first place. Whatever the reason, it is important for the court to be flexible and a combination of lump sum and periodical payment might be the best option for some.

I ask the minister to give thought to the committee’s recommendation about giving more weight to a pursuer’s views when the court decides whether to award a PPO. I am entirely with Angela Constance on that. It would be disempowering for somebody who has faced that degree of personal injury to have that choice removed. I listened carefully to what the minister said to John Mason, but I am not convinced that the Government cannot go further towards meeting the committee’s recommendation.

It would also be helpful if she would ensure that, if there is a requirement to vary a PPO because of a change in circumstances, the pursuer would not need to bear the costs of doing so. That is an important principle that we will want to clarify.

As other members have said, it is a technical bill. The Scottish Government has, by and large, taken a balanced approach and, in the main, made the right policy choices, but I will not let the Government off the hook easily. There are always areas that can be improved and I look forward to the minister co-operating with the committee to ensure that we have a fair and transparent system of compensating those who have suffered personal injury.

16:26  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-15169, in the name of Ash Denham, on the Damages (Investment Returns and Periodical Payments) (Scotland) ...
The Minister for Community Safety (Ash Denham) SNP
I am very pleased to be here to open the debate on the general principles of the Damages (Investment Returns and Periodical Payments) (Scotland) Bill. I than...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I accept the minister’s point, in broad terms. Will she give some detail about the out-of-cycle review? In a five-year period, assumptions around investments...
Ash Denham SNP
Daniel Johnson makes a good point. The general point is that the rate must meet the needs of the hypothetical investor and ensure that they get the right amo...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
The committee had concerns about the fact that the court could impose on a pursuer who, for various reasons, might not want a continuing relationship with th...
Ash Denham SNP
We have taken account of that. We recognise that there are many reasons why a PPO might not be suitable for a pursuer or a defender, but we think that the co...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Gordon Lindhurst to speak on behalf of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee for up to eight minutes. 15:48
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
I trust that all members present have read our stage 1 report, which is a classic of the genre. Neil Findlay is not present on this occasion to ask me a ques...
Dean Lockhart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I thank those who provided submissions on the bill and the witnesses who attended the three Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee sessions that were dedica...
Daniel Johnson Lab
I thank the member for giving way. I accept some of what he is saying, but does he not accept that the language being used—the talk of a portfolio of balance...
Dean Lockhart Con
The member makes a fair point. That is why the further adjustments that we will come to—such as the 0.5 per cent deduction to pay for professional advice in ...
John Mason SNP
Will the member accept that it is inevitable that some people will be undercompensated and some will be overcompensated? It is not possible to exactly compen...
Dean Lockhart Con
That is a fair point to make, although the vast majority of the evidence sided with the probability that overcompensation would be the likely result of these...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
Dean Lockhart Con
I am literally about to wrap up. The Damages (Investment Returns and Periodical Payments) (Scotland) Bill is technical, but it is vitally important for thos...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I, too, thank the clerks and members of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee for their excellent work at stage 1 of the Damages (Investment Returns an...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
We move to the open part of the debate. Members have a generous four minutes for speeches. 16:09
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
The bill has been more interesting than I think that some committee members might have anticipated. The bill may affect a relatively small number of people, ...
Maurice Corry (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I, along with my colleagues, welcome this stage 1 debate on the bill. Suffering personal injury is never expected. No one ever wants to have to claim compens...
Angela Constance (Almond Valley) (SNP) SNP
Although the number of people who are directly affected by the bill is small, the bill is nonetheless crucial. We should always remember whose interests are ...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
As a member of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee, which scrutinised the bill, I am grateful to have the opportunity to speak in the debate. Four mi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I can give you five minutes.
Jackie Baillie Lab
Oh, my goodness! I cannot guarantee that my arguments will be any more elegant. Let me cut to the chase and focus on two areas: the discount rate and periodi...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I have not been involved with the bill thus far, but I want to develop a number of its aspects; Jackie Baillie has touched on them already. The committee’s ...
John Mason SNP
Will the member give way?
Stewart Stevenson SNP
I will give way to somebody who knows more than I do about that matter.
John Mason SNP
The committee received evidence—I do not know whether the member would agree with it—that perhaps the investment cost would be higher at the beginning and lo...
Stewart Stevenson SNP
I am absolutely sure that the member is correct, but that goes to the heart of how the compensation is provided: whether it is paid in a lump sum up front or...
Jackie Baillie Lab
I will helpfully supply Stewart Stevenson with the discount rate that he was looking for. The Association of Personal Injury Lawyers supplied us with it: it ...
Stewart Stevenson SNP
That is broadly what I would have expected, so I am obliged to the member for that. Investors come in all shapes and forms. Over the years, with my wife, I ...