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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 18 December 2018

18 Dec 2018 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Damages (Investment Returns and Periodical Repayments) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Although the number of people who are directly affected by the bill is small, the bill is nonetheless crucial. We should always remember whose interests are at the very heart of the bill: the people who have suffered an accident at work, a birth that did not go to plan, or negligence or lack of care by an individual or organisation, which mean that they live with the tragedy of no longer being who they were meant to be or leading the life that they had worked for or, indeed, had dreamed of.

The minister has helpfully put the legislation into the context of a wider programme of reform that abides by the principles of clarity, transparency and fairness. I will return later to the importance of principles.

In the time that I have, I will focus principally on periodical payment orders, because the committee heard substantial evidence about the risks that victims of personal injury bear with compensation, particularly if it is received in a lump sum. No matter how good the legislation, calculating an award for damages, particularly for future loss, is not an exact science and never will be, so the risk of undercompensation can be minimised but never removed.

We have to remember that damages are not surplus funds; they are meant to replace loss of earnings and meet future care costs. Professor Wass advised the committee about inflation-busting care costs, the unpredictability of life expectancy and the costs of specialised accommodation. All of those point to the advantages of a periodical payment order.

The bill will give the courts for the first time the power to impose, without the consent of either party, PPOs. Crucially, courts will only be able to do that where the continuity of payments is secure. However, in his evidence, Patrick McGuire from Thompsons Solicitors expressed concern about the potential for a victim to be forced to accept a PPO and how disempowering that could be for someone who has already suffered a catastrophic injury and endured a lengthy court process.

The committee recommended that the Government lodge amendments to give more weight to the views of the injured person and suggested a statutory presumption. In her transparent and clear response to the committee, the minister said that she did not want to undermine the ability of courts to make the best decision and that courts would inevitably weigh up the views of both pursuer and defender. Far be it from me to be disrespectful to our learned friends of the judiciary, but let us also not be deferential, because we know that little in life is inevitable.

That brings me back to principles: if we cannot have a presumption—and I am not convinced that we cannot—we should at least put some robust principles in the legislation relating to the views and voice of the injured person. There is precedent for that in the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Act 2000 and the Mental Health (Care and Treatment) (Scotland) Act 2003, among other legislation. Under such provisions, the court or tribunal, after weighing up all the evidence and hearing all the views, could take decisions to infringe people’s liberty, although it would do so under a clear obligation to listen to the views of those impacted and to demonstrate a wide range of principles.

Let us not add to the feelings of powerlessness and of not being listened to that are all too frequent in the lives of those with significant disabilities, illness or injury. The minister went some way towards recognising that when she acknowledged that PPOs would not be for everyone, given that some people would need a clean break from those who had been responsible for their injury. I am glad that she gave a commitment in Parliament to continue to consider that issue.

16:21  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-15169, in the name of Ash Denham, on the Damages (Investment Returns and Periodical Payments) (Scotland) ...
The Minister for Community Safety (Ash Denham) SNP
I am very pleased to be here to open the debate on the general principles of the Damages (Investment Returns and Periodical Payments) (Scotland) Bill. I than...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I accept the minister’s point, in broad terms. Will she give some detail about the out-of-cycle review? In a five-year period, assumptions around investments...
Ash Denham SNP
Daniel Johnson makes a good point. The general point is that the rate must meet the needs of the hypothetical investor and ensure that they get the right amo...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
The committee had concerns about the fact that the court could impose on a pursuer who, for various reasons, might not want a continuing relationship with th...
Ash Denham SNP
We have taken account of that. We recognise that there are many reasons why a PPO might not be suitable for a pursuer or a defender, but we think that the co...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Gordon Lindhurst to speak on behalf of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee for up to eight minutes. 15:48
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
I trust that all members present have read our stage 1 report, which is a classic of the genre. Neil Findlay is not present on this occasion to ask me a ques...
Dean Lockhart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I thank those who provided submissions on the bill and the witnesses who attended the three Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee sessions that were dedica...
Daniel Johnson Lab
I thank the member for giving way. I accept some of what he is saying, but does he not accept that the language being used—the talk of a portfolio of balance...
Dean Lockhart Con
The member makes a fair point. That is why the further adjustments that we will come to—such as the 0.5 per cent deduction to pay for professional advice in ...
John Mason SNP
Will the member accept that it is inevitable that some people will be undercompensated and some will be overcompensated? It is not possible to exactly compen...
Dean Lockhart Con
That is a fair point to make, although the vast majority of the evidence sided with the probability that overcompensation would be the likely result of these...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
Dean Lockhart Con
I am literally about to wrap up. The Damages (Investment Returns and Periodical Payments) (Scotland) Bill is technical, but it is vitally important for thos...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I, too, thank the clerks and members of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee for their excellent work at stage 1 of the Damages (Investment Returns an...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
We move to the open part of the debate. Members have a generous four minutes for speeches. 16:09
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
The bill has been more interesting than I think that some committee members might have anticipated. The bill may affect a relatively small number of people, ...
Maurice Corry (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I, along with my colleagues, welcome this stage 1 debate on the bill. Suffering personal injury is never expected. No one ever wants to have to claim compens...
Angela Constance (Almond Valley) (SNP) SNP
Although the number of people who are directly affected by the bill is small, the bill is nonetheless crucial. We should always remember whose interests are ...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
As a member of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee, which scrutinised the bill, I am grateful to have the opportunity to speak in the debate. Four mi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I can give you five minutes.
Jackie Baillie Lab
Oh, my goodness! I cannot guarantee that my arguments will be any more elegant. Let me cut to the chase and focus on two areas: the discount rate and periodi...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I have not been involved with the bill thus far, but I want to develop a number of its aspects; Jackie Baillie has touched on them already. The committee’s ...
John Mason SNP
Will the member give way?
Stewart Stevenson SNP
I will give way to somebody who knows more than I do about that matter.
John Mason SNP
The committee received evidence—I do not know whether the member would agree with it—that perhaps the investment cost would be higher at the beginning and lo...
Stewart Stevenson SNP
I am absolutely sure that the member is correct, but that goes to the heart of how the compensation is provided: whether it is paid in a lump sum up front or...
Jackie Baillie Lab
I will helpfully supply Stewart Stevenson with the discount rate that he was looking for. The Association of Personal Injury Lawyers supplied us with it: it ...
Stewart Stevenson SNP
That is broadly what I would have expected, so I am obliged to the member for that. Investors come in all shapes and forms. Over the years, with my wife, I ...