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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 08 January 2019

08 Jan 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Ultra-low-emission Vehicles
Finnie, John Green Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV

I commend what the Government motion says about “an unprecedented period”. It most certainly is unprecedented, but I suspect that we are talking about slightly different things. We need to consider climate change and the global challenge that it presents to us, as well as the many commendable things that are mentioned in the motion.

The Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill is insufficient as far as the Scottish Green Party is concerned. We need a climate emergency bill, net zero emissions by 2040, boosted 2030 targets and the introduction of a range of policies to make sure that changes are not put off until the next decade.

We also need radical policies, some of which have been alluded to by Colin Smyth. The issue is about attitude. Transport policy seems fixated on road building; yesterday, there was another announcement by the Scottish Government, proudly trumpeting £40 million on another new road. It builds roads and people drive on them. We spent £750 million completing the M8, but every morning when we switch on our radios, we hear that it is congested. We need a different approach. A lot of what has been said presupposes more of the same with just a different mode of propulsion, but that is not going to work.

It is true that the Scottish Government enjoys the support of all the Opposition parties for the main road building programme—actually, no, the Government does not enjoy our support, as we consider many of the roads to be vanity projects. There is expenditure in my area of up to £60 million for a trunk link road that, according to Transport Scotland’s figures, takes people between two points 12 seconds quicker. That fact is an obscenity that we ought to look at.

We should also look at the whole system of inspection, repair and replacement, because the Scottish Government is committed to massive funding of the trunk road network, while the fabric of the road network for which local authorities are responsible is decaying—we had a report about that yesterday. That is where inspect, repair and replace comes in. The Scottish Green Party is not against expenditure on roads, but we want to maintain our existing infrastructure before we consider anything else.

A number of members have alluded to health. Air quality is very important, and its significance is shown by the fact that thousands of people die every year as a result of poor air quality. I want to mention a couple of locations in relation to that issue.

In Inverness, the town where I stay, the local authority, instead of discouraging private motor vehicles from entering the Academy Street area, was recently trying to encourage them, in its mistaken bid to increase the shopping footfall in the town centre. In Scotland, there is a crying need for us to reduce the number of areas in which air quality damages the health of, in particular, older people, the infirm and young people.

I also want to mention air quality in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. As some members will be aware, its air quality is affected by cobalt mining. That issue was covered in an article in today’s Daily Record, which states:

“In hellish, dusty mines, children as young as 10 scrape fragments of cobalt from the dirt and into a sack with their bare hands, inhaling poisonous metallic particles.”

We need to change the system; we do not just need to replace one system with another. I listened carefully to what the cabinet secretary said about buses. He made a number of important points, and I have the details here of the money that has been expended on buses. However, he did not mention bus patronage. If we are going to change, we need to get people on to buses. I know that there is the Transport (Scotland) Bill, but it is not ambitious, so some of us want to make it more ambitious.

As we heard repeatedly from witnesses who appeared before the Rural Economy and Connectivity Committee, the challenge with bus travel is congestion, which holds up buses. Mechanisms are in place in the form of bus lanes, gates and priority light systems, but that problem affects people. People will not get a bus between places if it is quicker for them to walk between them. The mode of propulsion is a factor, so we need to find a different way ahead.

Without being too parochial, we have talked about the electric A9, but what about the Highland main line—the railway line that runs right beside the A9? We can compare the £3 billion that is expected to be spent on the A9, and the other £3 billion for the A96, with the fact that we will have diesel locomotives with a 30 to 40-year lifespan. I am all in favour of reusing and repairing, but we are not comparing like with like. The cabinet secretary will be sick of me talking about rail, but the reality is that 25.3 per cent of the rail network in Scotland is electrified, which is really good, but 0 per cent of the Highland main line is electrified, with no plans to change that. The benefits of electrification that apply to road travel apply equally to rail travel.

I want to touch briefly on the automotive industry, because it is clearly a very powerful lobby. I am one of the many people who feel quite let down, because we thought that we were doing the right thing a number of years ago by buying a diesel vehicle—in fact, we were positively encouraged to buy a diesel vehicle—only to be told that such vehicles are dirty polluters. There is an issue about confidence in what we are being told, and that will apply to some of the new technologies, too. Although I am not in any way technical, and I hear what people say about hydrogen, we need to have a clear evidence base for all future decisions.

I move amendment SM5-15243.1, to insert after “registrations in Scotland”:

“; welcomes the important role that ULEVs can play in decarbonising the transport sector, but recognises that this technology does not address the need to cut congestion and to improve road safety”.

15:03  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-15243, in the name of Michael Matheson, on ultra-low-emission vehicles. 14:30
The Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Infrastructure and Connectivity (Michael Matheson) SNP
In 2017, we announced our commitment to phase out the need for petrol and diesel cars and vans by 2032. Since then, we have seen huge shifts in the electric ...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
As the owner and daily user of a hybrid vehicle, I applaud the Scottish Government for its—if I can use this pun—direction of travel. However, I am also the ...
Michael Matheson SNP
There is no plan to ban petrol or diesel vehicles, but Murdo Fraser might have difficulty in getting his classic car into low-emission zones in our big citie...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
The cabinet secretary has mentioned electricity a few times. Is there a place for hydrogen in the mix?
Michael Matheson SNP
If John Mason bears with me, I will get to hydrogen, which has an important role to play. This year, we will expand the scope and ambition of our work so th...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Is there a risk in overfocusing on types of power, whether it is hydrogen or electric, to the exclusion of automation? The combination of automation with ele...
Michael Matheson SNP
Daniel Johnson raises an important point. Such issues need to be considered, but the timeline for progress on them is different. That is why we need to take ...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
There is no better way to kick-start the new year than to discuss an issue that will affect not only this generation but the generations to come: climate cha...
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
Does the member agree that is it incumbent on us, as society’s highest earners and its representatives, to lead the way with our choice of vehicles and to go...
Jamie Greene Con
Absolutely. However, given the number of miles and the distances that we cover, as many other people do in their daily lives, the problem is that there are s...
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Transport accounts for almost two thirds of Scotland’s greenhouse gas emissions, with road transport responsible for almost three quarters of that. If we are...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
I commend what the Government motion says about “an unprecedented period”. It most certainly is unprecedented, but I suspect that we are talking about slight...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I thank the transport secretary for lodging his motion, which allows us to start 2019 with this important debate. In the context of the recent lack of progre...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We turn to the open debate. Members have five minutes for their contributions. 15:10
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
Happy new year, Presiding Officer. Scotland has some of the world’s most ambitious targets when it comes to making our country a low-carbon economy. It goes...
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests, specifically on farming. The way that the world travels is changing: the wheel has not be...
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP) SNP
For once, my previous employment is actually of some use in a debate in Parliament. People lazily say “a former used-car salesman”. At this point, I say for ...
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
As we have heard, ultra-low-emission vehicles are an important part of a reimagined and progressive transport system for Scotland’s future. Many of us consid...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Very briefly, please.
Claudia Beamish Lab
Rural poverty can be hidden in small pockets, but many people in rural areas face real difficulties. I believe that there is a case to be made for providing ...
The Presiding Officer NPA
That was brief—thank you. 15:30
John Scott (Ayr) (Con) Con
I begin by declaring an interest as a farmer, an historical rural dweller and the owner of a rural business. I welcome this debate on ultra-low-emission vehi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
I must tell members that we are very tight for time, because a statement has to follow the debate at 4.30. 15:34
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I declare that I am honorary president of the Scottish Association for Public Transport and honorary vice-president of Railfuture. I listened with interest ...
Jamie Greene Con
Will the member give way?
Stewart Stevenson SNP
I suspect that I do not have time; I ask the member to forgive me. Claudia Beamish talked about planning and domestic houses. My colleague Richard Lyle has ...
Lewis Macdonald (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
It is scarcely 100 years since transport in the western world was revolutionised by the rise of the internal combustion engine, which decisively replaced hor...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You must conclude there. I am sorry, but I must be very firm. I want to fit in everyone who has been sitting waiting. 15:45
Angus MacDonald (Falkirk East) (SNP) SNP
Scotland, as a nation, is changing in many ways. Change, in most circumstances, is welcome—and the change that we are seeing in the advancement of our infras...