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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 19 December 2018

19 Dec 2018 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Water Charges (Single-person Households)

If John Mason wishes to do so, I am sure that Glasgow City Council would welcome him paying extra. However, that is not the point. The majority of people in this category are on low and fixed incomes. Losing the discount could have serious consequences, as they will need to find more from an existing pot—a small pot—simply to stay afloat. Age Scotland’s briefing for the debate has pointed out that, in a recent survey, six out of 10 pensioners said that they struggle with their fuel bills. We can imagine how much more difficult the Scottish Government will make it if it removes the discount for water from older people, too. The number of older people is set to rise significantly over the next decade; in particular, the number of older people who live alone is expected to rise by nearly 50 per cent.

Has the Scottish Government, in its wisdom as part of its consultation, published an analysis of responses yet? I was told by the cabinet secretary herself that the final consultation report would be presented to a multi-stakeholder group on 25 October and published on Scottish Water’s website thereafter. However, thereafter, somebody ran for cover. Despite emails to Scottish Water and portfolio questions to the Government, the report remains hidden away. I am now told, as the result of a freedom of information request, that it will be published—wait for it—on Friday 21 December when we have all gone home and no one will be paying attention. That is woeful, to be frank, and tells us everything that we need to know about the cynicism of this Government.

I will now turn to the council tax reduction for single-person households. People get the water discount if they get the council tax discount. Members will appreciate the concern that we are witnessing the thin end of the wedge. Today it is the water discount that they are after; tomorrow it will be the council tax discount. Welcome to the new Scotland where people are being penalised for living alone.

This is not far-fetched. A former Scottish National Party MSP, Roderick Campbell, questioned whether the single-person council tax discount should remain at all. When I put that to the First Minister at First Minister’s questions a few weeks ago, I expected her to rule it out. However, she did not rule it out; she pointed to further consultation.

Let us be clear about the cost of the removal of both single-person discounts, for water and for council tax—it would cost the average band D household more than £400 a year. People would need to find an extra £400 on a fixed income at a time when the price of everything is going up but earnings are flat or declining in real terms for the majority of the population.

As I said at the start, providing more assistance for those who are on council tax reduction is welcome, but how it is paid for is the issue at stake. I do not believe that taking from the slightly less poor to pay for the poorest is the right way to do it. I cannot begin to understand why the cabinet secretary appears to be hellbent on making changes that would leave substantial numbers of people in Scotland poorer than they are today.

Let me genuinely ask the cabinet secretary to think again. Has she considered whether there is a way to protect single-person pensioner households? What discussions has she had with the Cabinet Secretary for Social Security and Older People? Now that the Scottish Government has new powers, has she thought imaginatively about how those could be used to help people who are on low incomes with water charges? Will she meet Age Scotland and include pensioners directly in a discussion about this policy, which will affect their income going forward? I genuinely hope that we can persuade the cabinet secretary, who is politically astute, not to rush into this. Let us work together to ensure that no one is penalised if they happen to live alone in Scotland today.

17:15  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The final item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S5M-14677, in the name of Jackie Baillie, on the Scottish Government to penalise Scots for...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
You can call me Jackie any time you like, Presiding Officer.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
It is too close to recess. I am drifting. I call Jackie Baillie to open the debate. Motion debated, That the Parliament disagrees with the Scottish Water p...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
Almost 950,000 people in Scotland receive a discount for their water. For the overwhelming majority of those people, the discount is worth 25 per cent of the...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Does Jackie Baillie accept that some of us who are single and live on our own would happily pay a bit of extra money?
Jackie Baillie Lab
If John Mason wishes to do so, I am sure that Glasgow City Council would welcome him paying extra. However, that is not the point. The majority of people in ...
James Dornan (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) SNP
As is normal, I thank Jackie Baillie for securing the debate. However, I am deeply disappointed in the tone of her motion, and I am also surprised that it wa...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
James Dornan SNP
Only if it is not coming of my time.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
There is time, Mr Dornan.
Daniel Johnson Lab
I gather, based on his remarks, that the member is asking the Scottish Government to rule out removing the single-person discount for water. Is that correct?
James Dornan SNP
I thought that Daniel Johnson had been here long enough to know the difference between a consultation and something that is not a consultation. The consultat...
Jackie Baillie Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The member should be concluding, Ms Baillie.
James Dornan SNP
I reiterate that no decisions have been taken on the issue. However, when the decision is taken, it will be about ensuring that the help that we provide goes...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you, Mr Dornan. Just for—Interruption. I ask members to please be quiet. Mr Dornan, you said that you did not know why the motion was allowed. The proc...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Sit down, Mr Dornan.
James Dornan SNP
I raise a point of order.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Tread carefully—it had better be a point of order.
James Dornan SNP
Do we have clarification of what the boundaries are for a member’s debate?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Sit down, Mr Dornan. Sit down. That is not a point of order. You asked why the debate was allowed and I have explained the parliamentary process. That is why...
Finlay Carson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Con
My speech completely misjudges the tone of the debate, but I will continue. I thank Jackie Baillie for bringing this important subject to the chamber. As t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I have been quite indulgent, because you did not read the motion properly.
Finlay Carson Con
You are absolutely right.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Do not test my indulgence by giving me a big list of all the organisations that you want on the record.
Finlay Carson Con
I certainly will not do that.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
No, you will not.
Finlay Carson Con
At this time of year, when the focus is on goodwill to all men and women, Scottish Water needs to look again at its misguided plans that will punish people s...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you very much. I see that you have found your card and I have found my glasses, so things are improving. 17:25
James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I start by paying tribute to my colleague Jackie Baillie for securing the debate and lodging her relevant motion. Jackie has a formidable record as a campaig...