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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 14 November 2018

14 Nov 2018 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Social Care
Rowley, Alex Lab Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

We suggest that another way of doing that would be to look at the Scottish Government directly funding the IJBs. However, another main point in our motion is that there needs to be discussion between the key partners around a financial model that will provide long-term stability for both health and social care in Scotland. The cabinet secretary makes that point herself when she says that they are blaming each other. Why not direct the funding from the Scottish Government directly into the IJBs so that we have transparency?

Moving resources from health to social care is proving to be challenging and progress is not fast enough. Realistically, shifting the balance of care will require investment in social care services if real improvements are to be made. The Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations raised an important issue around the commissioning of social care services and pointed out that sustainability issues are coming to the fore as the result of factors such as low hourly rates and lack of resources. We must realise that driving down the cost of social care is, in the main, achieved by driving down the pay and conditions of care workers.

My personal experience of home care was when my dad was ill before he died. He had a full care package of four visits per day and, as we spoke to the carers, we discovered that two of those visits were from carers employed by the council and two were from carers employed by an agency. All the carers were brilliant and we could never repay the amazing care and support that they provided to my dad. At the end of the day, therefore, the only difference between those carers was that some were paid a lot less than others, had poorer terms and conditions than others and did not have the same job security as others. Surely, that cannot be right. Surely, we should be promoting a more sustainable model of care that gets the maximum social value from public funds.

That should include more in-house provision so that public funding of care is not used to drive the profits of large-scale commercial providers. Where contracting currently remains necessary, more effort should be made to break up contracts into smaller units, which gives locally based providers a meaningful chance to bid for that work, rather than it going to large commercial chains that are increasingly financially unstable.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
As I said, we lose time even at a changeover, so I am afraid that I am going to move straight on. I think that Mr Rowley is ready. The next item of business...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
Labour lodged the motion for debate today in order to highlight what we see as some of the challenges that are faced by providers of health and social care. ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport (Jeane Freeman) SNP
I am sure that Mr Rowley will recognise that I have had very similar comments from the health service about local government. That is why it is really import...
Alex Rowley Lab
We suggest that another way of doing that would be to look at the Scottish Government directly funding the IJBs. However, another main point in our motion is...
The Minister for Mental Health (Clare Haughey) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Alex Rowley Lab
I am sorry, but I do not have time. In a survey of care workers conducted by Unison, almost half of carers said that they were limited to specific times wit...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Jeane Freeman, the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport, to speak to and move amendment S5M-14717.3. You have six minutes, cabinet secretary. 14:49
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport (Jeane Freeman) SNP
In this role, I have the privilege of meeting people who benefit from social care and people who provide it. Although those who I have met and heard from hav...
Elaine Smith (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Has the cabinet secretary read the Enable Scotland briefing? It says: “Third sector providers like Enable Scotland are forced to either fund uplifts in staf...
Jeane Freeman SNP
I am grateful for that question. I have read the briefing—I have read all the briefings that came in for today’s debate, as I properly should. My response to...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I am afraid that you must conclude there, cabinet secretary. I am terribly sorry, but this is a short debate.
Jeane Freeman SNP
I took an intervention.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Yes, but even with that you have had nearly another minute. Please move your amendment.
Jeane Freeman SNP
I move amendment S5M-14717.3, to leave out from “services; notes a central theme” to “Scottish Government to work” and insert: “, primary care and mental he...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you. These short debates are always awkward for the chair. I call Miles Briggs to speak to and move amendment S5M-14717.1. 14:56
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
I am pleased to take part in today’s debate and I thank the Labour Party for bringing this important matter to the chamber. Social care is one of the most im...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I warn you, Mr Briggs, that there is no time in hand. You will have to absorb the time taken by any interventions.
Jeane Freeman SNP
I will say this very quickly. Does the member recognise that in Edinburgh there is particular pressure in the labour market and that both the local authority...
Miles Briggs Con
I have been calling for that for two years and I met the health board to say that it needs to be put in place. We have an overheated market here in Edinburgh...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You must conclude there, I am afraid. I have to be the same with everyone. I am sorry about that—I beg your pardon.
Miles Briggs Con
To conclude—
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You have had five minutes. Sorry, Mr Briggs, but I have no time in hand. Please move your amendment.
Miles Briggs Con
I move amendment S5M-14717.1, to insert at end: “, and further calls on the Scottish Government to focus on improving workforce planning and consider new m...
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green) Green
I thank Labour for bringing this debate to the chamber and I welcome the opportunity to discuss the future of social care in Scotland. I am heartened by the ...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
Every year, 500,000 bed days are lost to the NHS because of delayed discharge. The issue is one that was supposed to have been resolved almost three years ag...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
We move to the open debate. We are already behind time, so speeches of under four minutes would be useful. 15:10
Elaine Smith (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
On many occasions in Parliament, members have commended the skills and professionalism of people who work in the social care sector, and rightly so, because ...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Today’s motion on investing in social care for Scotland’s future states that the “health and social care system” is “based on human rights, where people r...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take an intervention?