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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 07 November 2018

07 Nov 2018 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Safeguarding Research Collaborations and Scientific Excellence
Greer, Ross Green West Scotland Watch on SPTV

Like colleagues, I welcome the Minister for Further Education, Higher Education and Science to his post.

It is now almost 20 months since article 50 was triggered and the UK Government has still failed to negotiate what its former Brexit secretary thought would be the easiest deal in history. It is clear that the Prime Minister is paralysed by the in-fighting in her party and is too scared to take on the hard-right ideologues on her benches and in her Cabinet. One of the many areas of our society that are already suffering the consequences of this bizarre mix of incompetence and malice is our university sector and the wider research and education sectors here in Scotland.

We know that membership of the EU brings benefits such as funding and support for international research collaborations, the Erasmus+ programme and the immense boost that the right to European freedom of movement gives to both individuals and the institutions that they work for or with. We cannot pick and choose our favourite bits of the EU and hope to retain their full benefits without being a member. That is not how the EU works, but that seems to have passed the UK Government by. We saw that when Switzerland sought to restrict freedom of movement in 2014 and its participation in EU research programmes was immediately restricted.

Funding can be replaced by the Government, although there is little trust in the UK Government’s commitment to that, but the reputation and prestige that come with hosting huge EU-funded multinational research projects cannot be so easily replaced.

Switzerland never even implemented its restrictions on freedom of movement. It opted instead to negotiate a new agreement with the EU in return for restoring access to research programmes. Nonetheless, the vice-president for research at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology has said that it may take Swiss research institutes at least half a decade to recover the standing that they lost and to re-establish themselves globally. That was because of a two-year restriction, resulting from a decision that was not implemented. The UK faces full, complete, absolute and permanent—or at least long-term—removal from European freedom of movement. How can those parties—and it is more than just the Tories—that are committed to ending freedom of movement reconcile that commitment with their intention to retain access to EU research programmes?

Horizon 2020 funding is currently worth more than €200 million to Scottish research institutes. Research projects are also funded through European structural funds, of which we have received almost €1 billion in this funding cycle. EU citizens make up more than one in five of the research staff at our universities, and more than 20,000 students from the rest of the EU currently study in Scotland. I appreciate that the UK Government, after two years of unnecessary delay, has finally stated that EU citizens’ rights to stay in the UK will be secure, even if there is no deal. That provides some relief to EU citizens who are here, but only to some. It does not resolve the understandable level of distrust towards the Home Office, given its hostile environment policies and its typically staggering levels of incompetence.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-14638, in the name of Richard Lochhead, on safeguarding Scotland’s international research collaborations ...
The Minister for Further Education, Higher Education and Science (Richard Lochhead) SNP
Yesterday, I visited Queen Margaret University, where I was given a tour by the wonderful principal, Petra Wend. She has been at the helm there for nine year...
David Stewart (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
The member will be aware of the tremendous record of Scottish scientists, and that the Bank of England is going to honour a scientist on the new £50 note. Wi...
Richard Lochhead SNP
Of course—Professor Macleod would be an excellent candidate. Indeed, there are many candidates from Scotland who have given us an enormously successful track...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con
Does the minister think that his speech says that we are open for business or that we are focused entirely on the negatives?
Richard Lochhead SNP
I am saying that Scotland is open for business. I only wish that the Conservatives would say that, too. I support the work that our universities and college...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con
I begin by focusing on the positives. It is easy in the current political climate to jump straight to the negatives and to challenge and dispute what other p...
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
Will the member taken intervention?
Oliver Mundell Con
Not right now, thank you. Indeed, I believe that, whatever our respective stances on Brexit, the vast majority of Scots want to see our university, research...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
I wonder whether Mr Mundell can answer this question for me: does he believe that those laudable objectives, which I endorse, will be enhanced or diminished ...
Oliver Mundell Con
Challenges lie ahead—I will not stand here and deny that. The fundamental climate in which our country operates internationally will change. However, we have...
Gillian Martin SNP
Will the member take an invention?
Oliver Mundell Con
I have already taken an intervention; I want to make a little progress. It is in that positive spirit that I lodged today’s Scottish Conservative amendment ...
John Swinney SNP
Mr Mundell sets out an argument for continuing to make the case for an appropriate approach to immigration—I think that those were the words that he used. Ho...
Oliver Mundell Con
I go back to what I said at the start of my speech. Clearly, I adopt a much more positive approach. We have to work towards the system that we want to see. W...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I think that I am correct in saying that this is Mr Lochhead’s first debate in his new role as Minister for Further Education, Higher Education and Science, ...
Oliver Mundell Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Iain Gray Lab
I think that it is too late. The truth is that Brexit is already damaging science and research. A recent Nature magazine editorial says: “Regardless of whe...
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
I am sure that Mr Gray would recognise that, when the Presiding Officer dropped her bottle of water when he was speaking, she was merely testing one of Einst...
Gillian Martin SNP
Oliver Mundell said that people who talked about the matter in a negative way and were warning, as Tavish Scott is doing now, were politicking. Would Tavish ...
Tavish Scott LD
It is important to recognise that 1,000 of the staff at the Francis Crick Institute were surveyed. That is the reason why I want to talk about UK science. Fa...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
Like colleagues, I welcome the Minister for Further Education, Higher Education and Science to his post. It is now almost 20 months since article 50 was tri...
John Swinney SNP
Does Mr Greer accept that there is a future threat from all of that? The Finance and Constitution Committee pointed out in its report today that population g...
Ross Greer Green
I am grateful to the Deputy First Minister for making that relevant point. I am sure that, like his colleagues, he heard the evidence that the Culture, Tour...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move on to the open debate with speeches of six minutes, please. 15:25
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
It is difficult to quantify exactly the impact of Brexit on scientific research in Scotland for a number of reasons. First, reports tend to concentrate on UK...
Oliver Mundell Con
I thank Gillian Martin for that comment, but she might want to reflect on the fact that those on the Conservative side of the chamber are looking way beyond ...
Gillian Martin SNP
I was happy to take the intervention, even though Mr Mundell never took any of mine. He may say that, but I cannot see many of the people from the scientific...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I start by welcoming the minister to his role—it is good to see him back in Government. This is an interesting debate and I am glad that he has chosen such a...
Maureen Watt (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) SNP
The principal of another university in the west of Scotland, Sir Anton Muscatelli of the University of Glasgow, said that a hard Brexit would represent “the...