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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 07 November 2018

07 Nov 2018 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Safeguarding Research Collaborations and Scientific Excellence

I am sure that Mr Gray would recognise that, when the Presiding Officer dropped her bottle of water when he was speaking, she was merely testing one of Einstein’s theories rather than trying to interrupt his remarks.

I heard Oliver Mundell accusing some of us of being “obsessive”. When I watch Jacob Rees-Mogg and one or two others on the television, I hear a whole new definition of obsession, which I invite Mr Mundell to consider carefully.

I, too, welcome Richard Lochhead to his place. I thought that he might have got fisheries research in. He spent eight years talking about that in the Parliament. I suppose that the point that he would have made—I will help him to make it—would have been that many people from every part of Europe, whom I can remember, worked at the marine laboratory in Torry doing fisheries research. That still applies now, and that is still certainly the case in the marine centre in Scalloway in Shetland.

When any country faces the uncertainties of the modern world, it makes sense to play to its strengths. Scotland’s higher education institutions, the research that they do and the people whom they employ are a strength that has attracted academics from across the globe to the UK and Scotland. That strength has been a welcome mat for international students and it demonstrates that we are a connected part of the European universities and research infrastructure. We are simply part of that European family.

However, we are now in danger of losing that strength. That is why 35 Nobel laureates recently wrote to the Prime Minister to call for a deal on science and innovation that allowed the “closest possible cooperation” between the UK and the EU. That is a group of outstanding people. It includes the president of the Royal Society, Venki Ramakrishnan, and Dr Richard Henderson, who won the Nobel prize for chemistry in 2017 and who was born in Edinburgh and studied at the University of Edinburgh. That strength is why 23 senior figures from the University of Edinburgh, the University of Aberdeen and the University of St Andrews signed an open letter that warned of the consequences of Brexit and called for a people’s vote, and it explains why the Francis Crick Institute in London, which is the biggest biomedical research laboratory in Europe, surveyed more than 1,000 staff in October and found that 97 per cent thought that a hard Brexit would be bad for UK science.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-14638, in the name of Richard Lochhead, on safeguarding Scotland’s international research collaborations ...
The Minister for Further Education, Higher Education and Science (Richard Lochhead) SNP
Yesterday, I visited Queen Margaret University, where I was given a tour by the wonderful principal, Petra Wend. She has been at the helm there for nine year...
David Stewart (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
The member will be aware of the tremendous record of Scottish scientists, and that the Bank of England is going to honour a scientist on the new £50 note. Wi...
Richard Lochhead SNP
Of course—Professor Macleod would be an excellent candidate. Indeed, there are many candidates from Scotland who have given us an enormously successful track...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con
Does the minister think that his speech says that we are open for business or that we are focused entirely on the negatives?
Richard Lochhead SNP
I am saying that Scotland is open for business. I only wish that the Conservatives would say that, too. I support the work that our universities and college...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con
I begin by focusing on the positives. It is easy in the current political climate to jump straight to the negatives and to challenge and dispute what other p...
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
Will the member taken intervention?
Oliver Mundell Con
Not right now, thank you. Indeed, I believe that, whatever our respective stances on Brexit, the vast majority of Scots want to see our university, research...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
I wonder whether Mr Mundell can answer this question for me: does he believe that those laudable objectives, which I endorse, will be enhanced or diminished ...
Oliver Mundell Con
Challenges lie ahead—I will not stand here and deny that. The fundamental climate in which our country operates internationally will change. However, we have...
Gillian Martin SNP
Will the member take an invention?
Oliver Mundell Con
I have already taken an intervention; I want to make a little progress. It is in that positive spirit that I lodged today’s Scottish Conservative amendment ...
John Swinney SNP
Mr Mundell sets out an argument for continuing to make the case for an appropriate approach to immigration—I think that those were the words that he used. Ho...
Oliver Mundell Con
I go back to what I said at the start of my speech. Clearly, I adopt a much more positive approach. We have to work towards the system that we want to see. W...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I think that I am correct in saying that this is Mr Lochhead’s first debate in his new role as Minister for Further Education, Higher Education and Science, ...
Oliver Mundell Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Iain Gray Lab
I think that it is too late. The truth is that Brexit is already damaging science and research. A recent Nature magazine editorial says: “Regardless of whe...
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
I am sure that Mr Gray would recognise that, when the Presiding Officer dropped her bottle of water when he was speaking, she was merely testing one of Einst...
Gillian Martin SNP
Oliver Mundell said that people who talked about the matter in a negative way and were warning, as Tavish Scott is doing now, were politicking. Would Tavish ...
Tavish Scott LD
It is important to recognise that 1,000 of the staff at the Francis Crick Institute were surveyed. That is the reason why I want to talk about UK science. Fa...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
Like colleagues, I welcome the Minister for Further Education, Higher Education and Science to his post. It is now almost 20 months since article 50 was tri...
John Swinney SNP
Does Mr Greer accept that there is a future threat from all of that? The Finance and Constitution Committee pointed out in its report today that population g...
Ross Greer Green
I am grateful to the Deputy First Minister for making that relevant point. I am sure that, like his colleagues, he heard the evidence that the Culture, Tour...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move on to the open debate with speeches of six minutes, please. 15:25
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
It is difficult to quantify exactly the impact of Brexit on scientific research in Scotland for a number of reasons. First, reports tend to concentrate on UK...
Oliver Mundell Con
I thank Gillian Martin for that comment, but she might want to reflect on the fact that those on the Conservative side of the chamber are looking way beyond ...
Gillian Martin SNP
I was happy to take the intervention, even though Mr Mundell never took any of mine. He may say that, but I cannot see many of the people from the scientific...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I start by welcoming the minister to his role—it is good to see him back in Government. This is an interesting debate and I am glad that he has chosen such a...
Maureen Watt (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) SNP
The principal of another university in the west of Scotland, Sir Anton Muscatelli of the University of Glasgow, said that a hard Brexit would represent “the...